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Subject: RE: Normalizing Price and Load Resources


What you suggest may be helpful.  But, some types of resources can’t be well represented with ISO bid curves. Examples include cascaded hydro dams, pumped hydro, battery storage, combined cycle generation.

 

Forwarded to the emix lists for discussion.

 

Edward G. Cazalet, Ph.D.

101 First Street, Suite 552

Los Altos, CA 94022

650-949-5274

cell: 408-621-2772

ed@cazalet.com

www.cazalet.com

 

From: Toby Considine [mailto:tobyconsidine@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Toby Considine
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 6:24 PM
To: 'Ed Cazalet'
Cc: 'Bill Cox'
Subject: RE: Normalizinh Price and Load Resources

 

Incremental is the only thing that makes sense, IMHO

 

I am thinking that on the Ramp side we need an “integral” flag, i.e, you can request 50 MW or 75 MW, but not 60 (if the 50-75 ramp is integral = true) It can always be conformed away by a particular market. I think this would handle the dead bands.

 

tc

 

 

 


"If something is not worth doing, it`s not worth doing well" - Peter Drucker


Toby Considine
TC9, Inc

TC Chair: oBIX & WS-Calendar

TC Editor: EMIX, EnergyInterop

U.S. National Inst. of Standards and Tech. Smart Grid Architecture Committee

  

Email: Toby.Considine@gmail.com
Phone: (919)619-2104

http://www.tcnine.com/
blog: www.NewDaedalus.com

 

 

From: Ed Cazalet [mailto:ed@cazalet.com]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 6:57 PM
To: Toby.Considine@gmail.com
Cc: 'Bill Cox'
Subject: RE: Normalizinh Price and Load Resources

 

The price curves have some additional important attributes.

 

There are two types: average price and incremental price.

 

The ISOs use incremental price curves.  Each curve segment is the price per MWH for the next segment. Usually there are two other elements to the offer (startup cost and minimum power)

 

Most generating incremental price curves are increasing price – ISO’s require this.  There are some very strange curves for combined cycle units with dead bands etc. that the ISO continue to struggle with.

 

The average price curve is usually what most people think they want.  It is the cost at each level of operation divided by the MWH at each level.  These curves can be declining.  They should never be used for transactions in my opinion, but they are.

 

Edward G. Cazalet, Ph.D.

101 First Street, Suite 552

Los Altos, CA 94022

650-949-5274

cell: 408-621-2772

ed@cazalet.com

www.cazalet.com

 

From: Toby Considine [mailto:tobyconsidine@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Toby Considine
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 1:23 PM
To: ed@cazalet.com
Subject: FW: Normalizinh Price and Load Resources

 

 

From: Toby Considine [mailto:Toby.Considine@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 2:54 PM
To: emix@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Normalizinh Price and Load Resources

 

The [uncompleted draft] work in the CIM has some inconsistencies in how it signs up loads. During the initial resource definitions, I pared those extensively, removing, for example, nameplate data, control system information, and other facts beyond those necessary to make economic decisions. There were also inconsistencies between the definitions for Load and for Power resources.  I summarize the CSD01 interfaces below (and in the attached documenta, for those who have plain-text mail…

 

RegisteredGenerationType

OfferLoadReductionType

OfferPowerType

ResourceLoad

Generic

(Registered Generator from CIM)

(LoadBid in CIM)

raiseRampRate

dropRampRate

raiseRampRate

dropRampRate

stagingRamp

maximumOperatingPower

minLoad

maximumPower

minimumLoad

maximumResponse

minimumOperatingPower

minLoadReduction

minimumPower

minimumResponse

dropRampRate

pickupRate

dropRampRate

raiseRampRate

recoveryRamp

spinReserveRamp

minLoadReductionInterval

minimumResponseInterval

minTimeBetLoadRed

minimumTimeBetweenCalls

shutdownCost

startupCost

invocationPrice

LoadReductionPriceCurve

offerSegment

priceRamp

minLoadReductionCost

minimumResourceCost

minimumResponseCost

 

 

Some notes )and thanks to Bruce for his work highlighting these issues:

 

1)      We have a very similar starting ramps[s], min response, max response, finishing ramp[s]

2)      We have a response time.

 

Ramps. The CIM takes a Ramp (begin value, end value) and has a directionality attribute. We take a ramp, assign directionality (ramp up, ramp down), and then the begin and end values. There are a couple ways we could do this, but these are essentially identical constructs.

 

Integral response: Each ramp could perhaps have some sort to integrity flag, i.e., all or nothing.  Sit or Stand, but requesting crouching is illegal. This is particularly useful for DR (Turn off Chiller or turn off Chiller and Lights) but could be useful for Power as well—particularly for renewables which may not have control.

 

Price requirements. Some of the CIM objects had price curves. Some did not. The last megawatt may be more expensive to buy than the first. Alternately, now that I have already sent everyone home, it may not cost much more to turn off all the lights. Price curves look like ramps in structure. Not all markets accept curves. Today’s market rules award different prices than those offered. (Often it is sum up all offers until you get enough, then award all that clearing price). I think we need a price curve, which is only incompletely described.

 

Constraints. I mentioned them earlier today.

 

I think I see a new top-level EMIX object, EmixOffers, which consists of Terms, Constraints, and a Price Ramp. The price curve would also include the requirements such as invocationPrice and minimumResponsePrice.

 

This would reduce the four above to Power and Load. Power Ramps UP during Start and Ramps Down afterwards. Load Ramps Down during Start, and Ramps Up afterwards.

 

Discussion?

 

tc


“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it” -- Upton Sinclair.


Toby Considine
TC9, Inc

OASIS Technical Advisory Board
TC Chair: oBIX & WS-Calendar

TC Editor: EMIX, EnergyInterop

U.S. National Inst. of Standards and Tech. Smart Grid Architecture Committee

  

Email: Toby.Considine@gmail.com
Phone: (919)619-2104

http://www.tcnine.com/
blog: www.NewDaedalus.com

 

 



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