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Subject: RE: [energyinterop] RE: Initial Port of OpenADR to EnergyInterop
Toby, As I understand it, BACnet WS
was designed precisely for the case of some outside entity that wants to read
data from or write data to a BAS. Isn’t that what OpenADR is about? BWS
is agnostic to what protocol is in the building, so it is certainly not meant
to be tied to a BACnet system and locked behind the ESI. I guess you could
argue that it is useful for one BAS over here to talk across the Internet to
another BAS over there, bypassing BACnet-over-the-Internet and LON vs. BACnet headaches.
But that was not the primary intent. Craig, Sharon—correct me if I am
wrong. I’ll also copy Dave Robin on this question, hope that’s OK. I
think this is an important issue. Is OpenADR (son of) supposed to address
energy interoperation between buildings and the SG? If BWS and oBIX are out of
scope, what is in scope for that? As for ESI interfaces---Market
entities (passing price and what else?), grid operation entities (for grid
reliability signals), and Aggregators (or building operators) passing on these
signals (or some modified signals) to buildings they manage. Is there feedback
to the market entities? I can see grid operation enitities requesting info on
availability of load shed, generation, and storage, on weather, and what else?
I can see building managers/ aggregators requesting similar info perhaps at
different levels of detail. I can see a verification aspect—requesting
sub-system electric usage data post-event perhaps, with independent
verification from the utility meter. Or maybe that isn’t verification—just
a post-event data analysis service to help in future grid event planning. David From: Considine, Toby
(Campus Services IT) [mailto:Toby.Considine@unc.edu] I must say that ESI and what is
the ESI is a matter in a lot of conflict on the smart grid team. I think we get
to define it. As I see it, ESI is the
abstraction for all communications, occluding internal technologies, enforcing
security policy, etc. There are three external interfaces that I know: 1)
Market Operations 2)
Curtailment 3)
Verification 4)
Proxy for Direct
Control I think energy interoperation is
concerned with (1) and (2). (4) is something else. (3) is one of the
great questions on the draft. What does it mean going forward. I expect we may
spend as much time on determining what if any of (3) is involved. I highlighted
it in the draft for that reason/// As to using BACnet-ws in
energyinterop—I just can’t see it. BACnet-WS was never designed to
be in the wild. tc "A man should never be
ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he
is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift
From: Holmberg, David
[mailto:david.holmberg@nist.gov] Toby, Sharon, I believe Ed’s reference to
BACnet was to the use of BACnet web services in the OpenADR spec as one of the
options between DRAS and DRAS Client. Thus BACnet WS is in scope, but otherwise
I agree. So, what is the ESI? In my mind it is an external gateway for access
to the facility network, often owned by the IT dept (if there is one), with the
purpose of firewalling and routing to appropriate box on the inside (like the
EMS). David From: Dinges, Sharon
[mailto:sdinges@trane.com] Toby, I believe this is a fair assessment. The interactions between
the EMS and the external ESI are more appropriately communicated using XML and
web services. Then, at the EMS level, the systems would communicate using BACnet,
LonWorks, OPC, HAN, DALI, etc. Regards, Sharon From: Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT)
[mailto:Toby.Considine@unc.edu] In terms of the smart grid
diagrams, outside communications should be with Energy Services Interface
(ESI), which is something different than the Energy Management System (EMS).
Makers of BACnet, LON, HAN, DALI, et al will each figure out what the middle
layer is. Oft times, the enterprise will be in between the ESI and any
EMS. It certainly will be in any industrial environment… BACNET, LON and friends are out
of scope… "A man should never be
ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he
is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift
From: Edward Koch
[mailto:ed@akuacom.com] Enclosed is a pass on the
document that Toby sent out. I mostly tried to answer some of his
questions and added some comments of my own. Here are some general comments: It looked like there is some
material missing at the end. Clearly there needs to be some
verbiage added concerning security requirements. There needs to be some meat added
for the interaction and data models. Perhaps adding in some of the
diagrams from the spec will fulfill this requirement. We need to give some thought to
what we are going to do with the various interfaces, i.e. BACnet versus REST
versus SOAP, etc. -ed koch The
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