Re: [energyinterop] RE: Signal Types

[Sila Kiliccote <skiliccote@lbl.gov>]

All,

Current DR evaluations for C&I customers are being done at the individual meter level. There may be one to one correspondence between a building and a meter or in many cases there is one meter to many buildings under the same customer account. DR has value only if it is outside of the standard error of historical load fluctuations. An example of this is many college/university campuses have one meter for the entire campus. If some (not all) buildings are participating in DR and it does not show up at the meter, they do not get paid. They can submeter those buildings and try to convince the utility that they are participating in DR, but utility settlements are done at the meter level and utilities do not have a way of giving incentives for sub-metering information. Their back office systems are too expensive to accommodate such changes. And I don't think they should. By doing DR in a few buildings, a campus may be deferring loads to other buildings and therefore not getting a net affect.

Overall, I agree with the approach - reducing all the price and reliability issues to prices will simplify M&V. The reality is that it is not going to happen in the near future because of the diversity of markets and wholesale and retail DR products. There is a lot of dynamic rates discussions happening in CA and while  all the utilities  are  planning to offer dynamic rates in 2010, in reality, we don't know how it will be received by the consumers and how closely they reflect reliability issues.  The renewable integration opens up another debate in this price issue which I am not going to get into at this time.

In short, I do think prices and reliability programs will operate together for a while and (hate to go back to the same topic but) the simple and smart discussion can also be considered from this point of view. Prices can be sent as "raw" data to be interpreted by the smart clients and in the same information model, attributes that represent DR program information and simplified prices can be sent as "processed" data for the simple clients. This enables the customers' transition between rates and programs with no cost and provides customers the flexibility and mobility. Our Grid Interop paper gave a very solid example. We moved three customers using simple clients from critical peak pricing tariff offered by the utility to Participating Load program offered by the ISO with NO changes in the communication and controls. No cost to the customer if they have OpenADR to move from one program to another.

Best wishes,
Sila

On 12/18/2009 6:40 AM, Horst, Gale wrote:

98AF24F29B135B4A8530F486F0D2D3BE02750331@usknxex01.epri.com" type="cite">

I think this quote I extracted from one of Ed's comment in the chain is, perhaps, foundational.

 

"Having a device communicate its response back between the domains is of little value unless the trust in the response is equivalent to that of a sub meter in that the response can be used for billing."  Ed Cazalet

 

If you look at the costs involved to having a device equal a revenue grade AMI meter in reliability, security, and be abile to maintain the verification of the response, will it have a valid cost/benefit for anything but very large loads?  

 

The other buring question is, can it be spoofed for financial gain?  The ATTACHED IMAGE IS A SPOOF sent to me from a friend. But it makes an obvious point.  The position is that a DR should be verifiable and impact standard energy measurment and billing methods.  Otherwise it’s success and verification may always be in question.

 

Enjoy!

 

Gale

 

 

-----Original Message-----
  ...  long chain removed  ...

 

 

 

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