Re: [energyInterop] Groups - EMIX TC Workshop Meeting modified

[Girish Ghatikar <GGhatikar@lbl.gov>]

EI TC,
(Also sent to eMIX for related pricing discussion).

We had a good working meeting today. I've attached the chat text from
the meeting. Few key items are as follows (thanks to David H for notes):

1. Pending confirmation from Bill, we agreed on a work session 11am PST,
2pm EST Friday on the usual TC number. Bill will confirm and send an
announcement to the EI TC list. EdK will go through the spreadsheet Bill
presented on April 21 TC call and color the OpenADR services as
internal, relevant to EI and a those that fall in between/need
discussion. So, Friday the intent is to look at Ed’s labels, discuss how
those translate to EI, and to transactional energy.
2. We discussed the OpenADR services in the perspective of the 2-node
diagram and then the additional interfaces in OpenADR (participant and
utility/ISO) and the “negotiations” that happen between DR program
operator and the participant via the participant interface and then via
info that might be sent in a signal, etc.
3. We discussed the the DR reliability vs. price signals and how it
relates to wholesale and retail markets. Due to no ISO reps. on the
call, we rescheduled the discussion for later.

Thank you,
Rish

wtcox@coxsoftwarearchitects.com wrote:
> I will not be able to attend this workshop meeting due to a client off-site
> all week.
>
> Topics for workshop meetings are driven by the attendees; some of the email
> threads would be a good topic for Thursday.
>
> Thanks!
>
> bill cox
> wtcox@CoxSoftwareArchitects.com
>
>  -- William Cox
>
>
> EMIX TC Workshop Meeting has been modified by William Cox
>
> Date:  Thursday, 29 April 2010
> Time:  11:00am - 12:30pm ET
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-- 

Rish Ghatikar
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
1 Cyclotron Road, MS: 90-3111, Berkeley, CA 94720
GGhatikar@lbl.gov | +1 510.486.6768 | +1 510.486.4089 [fax]

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[10:56] Toby Considine: Bill (I think) can't make it. SHould we schedule sometime soon a walk-through of recent work for the new members, if not today, soon?

[10:57] David Holmberg: I think we should step through the current wd and then look at Bill's service defn analysis with the OpenADR services and discuss in relation to what fits with the hierarchy node diagram and what is missing for tranactional energy

[10:57] Toby Considine: Conference number 

+1 866 740-1260 (US toll-free number) or 

+1 303 248-0285 (US and non-US toll number). 

Access code 4866768.

[10:57] David Holmberg: Also, I'm thinking the nodes could be called, "Signal source operator" and Gale's "VEN"

[11:01] David Holmberg: Sila, DaveWi, DaveWa, Toby, DaveH, EdK online

[11:01] anonymous morphed into dave watson

[11:05] Jeremy J. Roberts: Sorry; I'm still trying to get off of a previous teleconference to join this one.

[11:07] Toby Considine: Download Document:  

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37413/EITC%20Service%20Definition%20Analysis%2020100421.xls

[11:08] Toby Considine: DR Reliability Signals

[11:09] Toby Considine: EK: What they do, systems to dispatch. Dispatch  in temrs of "give me x kilowatts".

[11:09] Toby Considine: DH: So a reliability signal is a dispatch.

[11:09] Toby Considine: EK yes

[11:10] Toby Considine: DDH To maintain the reliability of the grid, we are going to [start a generator]

[11:10] Toby Considine: DH/EK - So this is a DR Event / when ISOs not interested in price, have mechanism for price / statement may not be correct

[11:12] Toby Considine: TC; We are blurring DR and Price in this TC. Are they describing a legacy?

[11:12] Toby Considine: EK: Think that's right.

[11:13] Toby Considine: DH: price is switching over existing systems, not looking to touch that

[11:14] Toby Considine: RG: They see wholesale markets, very different kinds of market, w/i wholesale side. Very difficult to get people to participate. Wholesale prices apply directly to market

[11:14] Toby Considine: DH: Always be some players who will do some arbitrage...

[11:15] Toby Considine: RG: Some sort of entitiy not in California...

[11:17] Toby Considine: TC: HVAC manufacturers just waiting fro standard signals to enable consumers to accept "that kind of risk"

[11:17] Toby Considine: RG: Programs to translate wholesale into retail prices

[11:18] Toby Considine: We need to make a concerted effort to get new participants on-line at next regular meeting

[11:19] Toby Considine: DH: Translation not part of EI. What do we need?

[11:19] David Holmberg: Jeremy, EdC, 2 others.

[11:20] David Holmberg: LBL working on addressing requirements for retail customer comms vs. wholesale

[11:21] Toby Considine: RG: Working on what we need to do by Connectivity Week. Paper underway, for

[11:21] Toby Considine: TC: Could work as do existing Liability Insurance, ...

[11:28] Toby Considine: [several - just offer / execution / performance

[11:28] Toby Considine: SK: Limitations: No more than wo hour event. 10 minute ramp time. How do we communicate those?

[11:33] Toby Considine: EK: Defined in OpenADR - Client interface is the event itself. Participant interface is the constraints.

[11:35] Toby Considine: Participant interface customizes his default role in performance. Set up constriants about program rules.

[11:36] Toby Considine: EC: Basic message is offers from either party until we get an agreement.

[11:36] Toby Considine: EC: ISO's don't make offers.

[11:37] Toby Considine: DH" Constellation has made promise to NEISO, now going to customers to get prices, offers.

[11:41] David Holmberg: TC: CNE has pre-exec arrangements, and un-exec where price still up for negotiation, other pieces out of scope

[11:42] Toby Considine: DH: Constellation amy offer more to customer or not

[11:44] Toby Considine: TC: Consumer may offer DR, Supplier may offer DR, this may interate until there is an agreement, then an excute signal, then a perform signal. If a particular market requires pre-executio of a whole class of DR, it's merely a local rule. External aspects such as "only 3 times a year" are external to EI signals.

[11:44] Toby Considine: EK Participation interface, Utility Interclase, client interface. those three interfaces.

[11:44] Toby Considine: Particpatn interface estabvlished relationship to the interface. Whatever may be necessary ffor relationship to be establsihed.

[11:46] Toby Considine: What if multiple DR servers available in neightborhood?

[11:46] Toby Considine: EK: We punted on notion of constence between entitites. All resolution is within a signal.

[11:53] Toby Considine: TC and EK conversation: Participant interface deals with mutual offers and with execution.

[11:53] Toby Considine: Programs o rparticipants, all admin type operations, in the constect of OpenADR are internal processes inside the entity.

[11:56] Toby Considine: Constraints are program rules.

[11:56] Toby Considine: SK: ReponseSchedules are reponse per interval.

[11:57] Toby Considine: DH: THis is what I can do?

[11:57] Toby Considine: EK: What I can do / this is what I will do.

[11:58] Toby Considine: SK: SImple DRAS Client,

[11:58] Toby Considine: EK Recipeint defines how he wants to receive information.

[11:59] Toby Considine: EC: So you give me signal, Within an hour I will start a half hour ramp down, stay there fro an hour

[12:00] Toby Considine: EK" No. defines information that he wants to receive. Participant can define what to hear. Allows participant to get levels, some simple mapping of what they are goin gto define

[12:03] Toby Considine: EK: Response schedules are a set of rules that filter what is going down to the participant.

[12:04] Toby Considine: DH: So response schedule is some sort of custom signal defined as part of some signal. Our of scope, customization of signal delivery...