Re: [energyinterop] Rough Chat Notes

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Holmberg, David <david.holmberg@nist.gov> wrote:

My take on action items. Others feel free to add/modify.

1. Read the just uploaded IRC contribution (Thank You Doug!). We discussed that the main question is, what is required by IRC that is not currently in OpenADR? We discussed that the EI TC should read over the IRC contribution with this in mind, and also figure out how to coordinate with ongoing efforts in NAESB and OpenADR Task Force.

2. Speaking of NAESB SG TF, we discussed that it would be good to have them review the EI spec come the end of the year.

3. We discussed EdC and Doug and Rish starting to tackle the Transactional Energy interaction patterns that need to be in EI and need to mesh with the current DR interaction patterns (with as much overlap as is practicable). Somehow this needs to tie in with existing efforts in the IRC

4. We have an EI spec review with UCAIug in Detroit on July 20, Tuesday afternoon (EdK, please confirm). We need an updated spec at that point which hopefully will include some material from Bill, and comment resolution (from the PR comments)

5. There was discussion of Rish working on interaction patterns based on OpenADR. And a date for that of mid July—is that something that will get into the July 20 spec review?

6. Rish will get a template from Anne and use that to get the PR comments ready for discussion and resolution next Wed (I don’t know that we agreed to that timetable, and thoughts on resolutions before next Wed would be helpful for getting the spec updated by July 20). We should send thank you notes to commenters.

7. The issue of timeline was discussed, and part of getting to an OASIS standard is conformance and implementations. We have promised a committee spec by the end of the year, and we need to move on conformance before then I think. And we need a plan for doing that. EI Exec should be responsible for this plan. Toby has good thoughts and hopefully can take the lead.

8. We discussed DER and had some debate on the “DER feedback” versus “transactional energy” approaches. Seems we need both. The new ASHRAE committee (PAP10) will have this in scope and we need to get the right people to the table and coordinate with EI also.

Please comment.

Please take a look at the IRC spec.

Rish—please send around the comment Excel sheet before Wed with proposed resolutions if you have thoughts on that, or assign people to address comments as you see fit and see what we can get done by Wed next week.

Thanks,
David

From: Toby Considine [mailto:tobyconsidine@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Toby Considine
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 12:46 PM
To: energyinterop@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [energyinterop] Rough Chat Notes

No promises, No QC, Shared as requested….

[10:55] anonymous morphed into Jeremy J. Roberts

[11:03] Toby Considine: DH: Meeting scheduled in Detroit w/ UCAIUG tentatively 7/20, to review EITC

[11:04] Toby Considine: DH: 3 weeks - Updated spec for review at that time, what needs to be done so we can get a new draft

[11:04] Toby Considine: DH: Respond to comments, what else do we need to do.

[11:05] Toby Considine: DH: Status of IRC contribution?

[11:05] Toby Considine: Doug: Contribution should be happening right now, they should be updated as we make progress

[11:06] Jeremy J. Roberts: UCAIUG Mtg info: http://osgug.ucaiug.org/Lists/Calendar/DispForm.aspx?ID=9&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fosgug%2Eucaiug%2Eorg%2Fdefault%2Easpx

[11:06] Toby Considine: Doug: No comparative analysis in the contribution. Analysis of the difference between IRC work and OpenADR

[11:07] Toby Considine: DH: Rish - Task Force comparative OpenADR and some of other requirements docs (OenADR task Force w/i UCA)

[11:08] David C. Wilson (DCW): David Wilson joins

[11:08] Toby Considine: Rish: SHould be done in July and August

[11:08] Toby Considine: DH: Same as NAESB event in Houston in 2 weeks?

[11:09] Toby Considine: Rish: Not sure related, integrating some of the wholesale work in DR

[11:15] David Holmberg: we should send emails to each comment submitter thanking them. Not formal PR, so not required to respond to each. But here don't have many comments (until OpenSG meeting)

[11:16] Toby Considine: [Some discussion about comments]

[11:16] Toby Considine: [Rish to compile, AH to send template she is using for EMIX]

[11:21] Toby Considine: Detailed discussion of books but I was listening too hard to take otes. Segments need to be defined for future extension, for use in different areas

[11:22] Toby Considine: EI book describes how they come together.

[11:23] Toby Considine: DH: Don't want to present appendix, don't

[11:24] David Holmberg: Rish will come up with interax patterns in the near future. Mid-July. From that Bill;'s focus moves to service def'ns that price comms. Then profiling what OpenADR looks like as subset of EI and at same time dev'p transactional E. Get input of UCAIug on OpenADR piece.

[11:26] David Holmberg: TC: interacx patterns--start with those in OpenADR (from LBL), services in each book. Not sure same interax patterns for transactional E

[11:28] Toby Considine: RISH: Load Prediction and ??? Book (someone fill in the blanks)

[11:24] David Holmberg: Rish will come up with interax patterns in the near future. Mid-July. From that Bill;'s focus moves to service def'ns that price comms. Then profiling what OpenADR looks like as subset of EI and at same time dev'p transactional E. Get input of UCAIug on OpenADR piece.

[11:26] David Holmberg: TC: interacx patterns--start with those in OpenADR (from LBL), services in each book. Not sure same interax patterns for transactional E

[11:28] Toby Considine: RISH: Load Prediction and ??? Book (someone fill in the blanks)

[11:29] David Holmberg: Rish: need to clearly separate scope of EI, EMIX. also TEMIX vs OpenADR. Also load predictability and DER.

[11:29] Toby Considine: RH: Conformance and Certifiaction and Testing...digging deeper into conformance standards and benefits

[11:33] Toby Considine: OpenADR is to look to conformance and interoperation testing. Stakeholders coming together

[11:34] Toby Considine: RisH: Premature to discuss how this comes together, how OpenADR specifically is developed

[11:35] Toby Considine: EC: Months on DR Interactions, little progress, little focus on transactional. I think we ought to spin off, very little progress on the DR stuff.

[11:35] Toby Considine: EC: Months on DR Interactions, little progress, little focus on transactional. I think we ought to spin off, very little progress on the DR stuff.

[11:37] Toby Considine: Trans: Combination of fixed forward pricing and real time pricing

[11:38] Toby Considine: Constellation uses forward block pricing, and differences in use

[11:39] Toby Considine: Rish: Focus on current market first

[11:40] Toby Considine: EdC Current markets in many areas are already more transaction oriented.

[11:40] Toby Considine: EdC Current markets in many areas are already more transaction oriented.

[11:40] Toby Considine: Rish: No retail pricing {edC - Residential in CA) which are weather based

[11:41] Toby Considine: Editorial Comment: Local Effect

[11:41] Toby Considine: Editorial Comment: Local Effect

[11:42] Toby Considine: Doug: Still a disconnct between market and the plug. Almost a reail price

[11:45] Toby Considine: Rish: DR, DER, Transaction are different, so we don't have different

[11:47] Toby Considine: DH: BACnet meeting on DR had some useful, ASHRAE effort representing LOAD will need to be collaborative with EITC. We have to address a coherent model between.

[11:48] Toby Considine: EdC: From a the Transactive Energ point of view, we had a long series of interations / complextiy for what goes beyond the meter.

[11:49] Toby Considine: EDC; We can' manage that level of complexity...

[11:49] Toby Considine: http://www.newdaedalus.com/articles/2010/6/28/what-is-an-internet-of-energy.html

[11:49] Toby Considine: http://www.newdaedalus.com/articles/2010/6/28/what-is-an-internet-of-energy.html

[11:50] Toby Considine: EdC; As a business owner, why would I want to reveal my operations to my supplier. Must offer a price to get a commitment...

[11:51] Toby Considine: Imagine airlines going around and surveying their customers on when they are going to fly again? Whya are we wating our time on it.

[11:53] Toby Considine: TC COncealing Energy use might be a model.

[11:54] Toby Considine: Doug: From the ISO level, we see statistical prediction, sonme information in advance, or in real time, predictability is important.

[11:55] Toby Considine: GH: How far do you go in expecting your customers doing your forecasting. Ref REC/VEN document. Old School is to try to get everyone to do the perfect thing for today's world.

[11:55] Toby Considine: DH: We need either a forecast, ore they need the information to do the forecast.

[11:56] Toby Considine: [Editorial - Oh, if only we had a common abstraction for projected desiirability, scarcity, abundance, and value...]

[11:57] Toby Considine: Best forecast is a firm forward contract

[11:57] Toby Considine: (that was ed c)

[11:58] Toby Considine: Doug: Lets not try to recreate all of this. Lets tweak artifacts, rather than recreate our own.

[11:59] Toby Considine: Doug: Reconciliation coming out of the IRC/OpenADR effort.

[11:59] Toby Considine: DH: When?

[11:59] Toby Considine: Doug: Rish, meeting in Houston in a couple weeks.

[11:59] Toby Considine: Rish: Would like prioceed, to discuss...

[12:00] Toby Considine: DH: but wou about IRC/Opedr comparison

[12:01] Toby Considine: DH: So would LBL take up this challenge...

[12:01] Toby Considine: Rish: Don't need to build on something new...

[12:02] Toby Considine: Ed [K?] involved in NAESB and IRC work

[12:02] Toby Considine: Doug: Does IRC have a standard they are proposing for wholesale / Day Ahead / RT markets.

[12:03] Toby Considine: More a position of of the ISO council on what smart grid looks like.

[12:03] Toby Considine: EdC - EI has to deal with all markets

[12:04] Toby Considine: Doug: Everything that is being done in that SG document.

[12:06] Toby Considine: Does that mean that this is the basis for the TransE.

[12:07] Toby Considine: Doug: EdC - take a look at ti.

[12:07] Toby Considine: [So we have a path to address the ADR and TE sides based on these new documents]

[12:07] Toby Considine: [So we have a path to address the ADR and TE sides based on these new documents]

[12:07] Toby Considine: [So we have a path to address the ADR and TE sides based on these new documents]

[12:07] Toby Considine: [So we have a path to address the ADR and TE sides based on these new documents]

[12:08] Toby Considine: Actions: Book Structure / Integration of Wholsale Work / Incorporate IRC / Work toward UCAIug /

[12:09] Toby Considine: DH Patterns of IRC ==> TE

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it” -- Upton Sinclair.

Toby Considine
TC9, Inc

OASIS Technical Advisory Board
TC Chair: oBIX & WS-Calendar

TC Editor: EMIX, EnergyInterop

U.S. National Inst. of Standards and Tech. Smart Grid Architecture Committee

Email: Toby.Considine@gmail.com
Phone: (919)619-2104

http://www.tcnine.com/
blog: www.NewDaedalus.com

energyinterop message