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Subject: RE: OASIS Forest Industries TC
Kurt
In response to your queries, please find in the next email (to avoid
clogging up the OASIS lists) info which I hope will be useful to you. A
raw schema file, a ZIP file which expands to an HTML navigable
presentation of the schema, and a copy of a Powerpoint presentation which
shows where we expect our work to fit into the "big picture" in the
fullness of time. There is also schema documentation in Word format which
I will get to you tomorrow (recently updated by a colleague who is off
site at the moment). All of this will soon be viewable on the OASIS site.
With regard to the use of portals, in the UK we have been unhappy with
many aspects of portal operations, and believe that with a single common
standard in place the simplest, most efficient and safest approach is to
talk more or less directly to each other and this has proved to be the
case in practice. Broadly, each of the larger organisations have
implemented secure ftp repositories, one per trading partner, on an
Internet-accessible server, with automated mechanisms to upload,
download, and archive files along with agreed conventions for file naming
etc. This has worked perfectly.
You mentioned Papinet / WoodX and I have to agree with your assessment of
where they're at. I would say in addition that, looking at the "big
picture" as per the attached presentation, it is hard to see how there
can be a future for their standard as their ethos and technical approach
is contrary to what the rest of the world is doing.
I hope this helps and I will follow these two emails up with the further
document mentioned above and also some sample XML data files.
Regards
Bill Allison
Head of Information Systems
BSW Timber plc
+44(0)1896 848305 Office
+44(0)1896 849255 Switchboard
+44(0)7768 511931 Mobile
www.bsw.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: steve.atkins@forestry.gsi.gov.
Sent: 23 January 2007 10:49
To: Kurt.Pikl@egger.com
Cc: John.Paterson@egger.com; forest@lists.oasis-open.org; Bill Allison
Subject: RE: OASIS Forest Industries TC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Kurt,
Glad to hear that you are interested. We have had numerous discussions
with
PAPINET/WoodX in the past for collaboration on eFIDS but they decided not
to
proceed. We have therefore been working within OASIS to promote them a
lthough we would be very happy for PAPINET/WoodX to be involved.
At the moment Products and Suppliers are defined within the standard
however,
as I said in my previous emails, we are investigating the potential for
using
CodeLists for these. We will arrange for the most up-to-date documen
tation to be made available to you. This will be provided by Bill
Allison of
BSW Timber PLC, one of the TC members. Please note that the same
standards
are used for all of the data streams identified.
I note your reference to Nexmart which appears to be what we would call
an
Exchange or Marketplace. We have mainly been using eFIDS for direct data
transfer between organisations. That is what I would propose for any
collab
oration between UK Forestry Commission and Egger UK.
We can discuss further once you have seen the documentation.
Regards
Steve
Steve Atkins
Head of Finance Systems Development
Direct Line 0131 314 6318
Mobile 07721 558127
________________________________
From: Pikl Kurt [mailto:Kurt.Pikl@egger.com]
Sent: 23 January 2007 06:32
To: Atkins, Steve
Cc: Paterson John; forest@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: AW: OASIS Forest Industries TC
this is very interesting for us - exactly what we are looking for! OASIS
is
well know to my expert (eBusiness-Consultant)
we could not find the detailed download for the formats we want to fill
* Stream 1: Initial Round Timber (RT) Despatch from Supplier to Buyer
* Stream 2: Return RT Weight from Buyer to Supplier (Weight Sales)
* Stream 3: Return RT Volume from Buyer to Supplier (Volume Sales)
* Stream 4 : Conventional RT Invoicing from Supplier to Buyer
* Stream 5 : Self-Bill RT Invoicing from Buyer to Supplier (Weight Sales)
* Stream 6 : Self-Bill RT Invoicing from Buyer to Supplier (Volume Sales)
* Stream 7 : Self-Bill Residue Invoicing from Processor to Processor
* Stream 8 : Sawn Goods Despatch from Processor to Sawn Goods Buyer,
* Stream 9 : Invoicing from Processor to Sawn Goods Buyer,
could you give us a hint?
up to now, we were looking for the PAPINET-Standard (to get the
mill-industry
on board), where WOODX seems to be a subset very simular to your attempt.
But
you seem to be much further.
You would fit very well into the project - all I need to know, how the
"product" is defined (and the supplier)
CoSeMat defines the PRODUCT (with a single number I create for all
participants) - so if you have a "number" I am fine
DUNS would be the supplier-number, because ILN is far to expensive for
such a
lot of potential suppliers
next step(s)
* if you look at my concept (total picture with nexmart) we (industry)
ensure,
that we send all data to nexmart (or how the plattform will be called) -
according to your definition. We have SAP...
* we would need to find (together) a supplier from EGGER, which is
interested
to implement the interface "on the other side" of the portal
that's it! sounds simple....
regards
Kurt Pikl
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Atkins, Steve [mailto:steve.atkins@forestry.gsi.gov.uk]
Gesendet: Montag, 22. Jänner 2007 18:36
An: Pikl Kurt; Atkins, Steve
Cc: Paterson John; forest@lists.oasis-open.org
Betreff: RE: OASIS Forest Industries TC
Kurt,
OASIS is the global open systems standards organisation. See link below
http://www.oasis-open.org/who/ <http://www.oasis-open.org/who/> - this
explains what OASIS does.
There is a Forest Industries Technical Committee within OASIS. See link
below.
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/forest/charter.php
<http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/forest/charter.php> - this
explains the
purpose of the Forest Industries TC.
eFIDS are data standards to be used within the forest industry for
electronic
transfer of data.
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/documents.php?wg_abbrev=forest
<http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/documents.php?wg_abbrev=forest> if
you
download the document eFIDS FAQ2.doc this provides Frequently Asked
Questi
ons on eFIDS. (note this will be uploaded to the FAQ link on the site
shortly).
We developed eFIDS through an organisation in the UK called the
eBusiness
Forum (EBF).
http://www.forestryscotland.com/ebusiness_forum/tp1.asp?parent_id=2
<http://www.forestryscotland.com/ebusiness_forum/tp1.asp?parent_id=2>
The above link is to the EBF website. This gives background information
on
what we have been doing to promote e-business in UK Forestry. If you
look
under the What We Do link you will see reference to Data Standards and in
particular to e-trading standards
<http://www.forestryscotland.com/ebusiness_forum/tp1.asp?parent_id=3&sele
>
http://www.forestryscotland.com/ebusiness_forum/tp1.asp?parent_id=3&sele
<http://www.forestryscotland.com/ebusiness_forum/tp1.asp?parent_id=3&s
elect_id=13&expand=12> ct_id=13&expand=12
The above link explains the eFIDS data standards further.
regards
Steve
Steve Atkins
Head of Finance Systems Development
Direct Line 0131 314 6318
Mobile 07721 558127
________________________________
From: Pikl Kurt [mailto:Kurt.Pikl@egger.com]
Sent: 22 January 2007 17:17
To: Atkins, Steve
Cc: Paterson John; forest@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: AW: OASIS Forest Industries TC
thank you for you feedback. one more "P.S." the latin names are from
EC-Standards and have been very usefull, if there was any discussion
between
the participants. But of cource, there might be mistakes in the
descriptions o
fn EN 13556. At the moment we use the wood-species with the appriviations
"ELDAT" only. FHPDAT will add there abbriviations a.s.a.p. If you have
eFIDS-abbriviations per wood-species - it would be a first step to add
them in
a
separate columne (in Excel). Since I work with numeric coding only, this
is/would be a information back-to-you.
please take in consideration, that Egger will be able to send data to
forest-partners in "not to far future" - but since we have a central
SAP-System with one masterfiles, the data will be the same for Germany,
Austria (Fran
ce, Russia, Rumania..) and GB. Therefore I would be very glad, to work
very
closely together with you.
did I understand right, that
eFIDS is the product-coding - very simular to CoSeMat and
OASIS is the technical definition of the data-transfer-standards? (file
description)
thank you for the chance, to co-operate with you.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Atkins, Steve [mailto:steve.atkins@forestry.gsi.gov.uk]
Gesendet: Montag, 22. Jänner 2007 17:59
An: Pikl Kurt
Cc: Paterson John; forest@lists.oasis-open.org
Betreff: OASIS Forest Industries TC
Kurt,
Nice to hear from you.
I agree that our work on the eFIDS Data Standards mainly concerns the
data
standards that are used between participants. Nevertheless it is timely
that
you write. We recently had a meeting of the OASIS Forest Industries T
echnical Committee (TC) and discussed the issue of CodeLists to be used
in the
standard. CodeLists are tables that can be used by all parties to define
specific attributes of data. This includes items such as Species, Produ
cts, Geographic Locations, Organisations, etc. The first 2 parts of your
work
would appear to cover this subject.
The TC decided that we needed to investigate the existence of CodeLists
further and one one of the TC Members is taking this forward. I have
copied
this correspondence to all involved on the TC.
With regards to your specific questions :-
* if you see a translation, which is not correct or does not fit
"wood-language" please correct it directly in the Excel, mark it (colour)
and
send it to me - I will correct the database - We will have a look at the
data
a
nd get back to you. For Species the Latin names are obviously the same
however there are obviously differences in the English descriptions
* the most important - do you see a chance, that the principle fits for
GB?
if so, I could meet you in GB to go into the details and explain the
project more in details - Our purpose in developing the standards is to
make
them fit across GB and elsewhere. I suggest any work is done through the
TC
of OASIS as that has been created for this purpose
* are you handling recycling-material as well? I have defined the
material -
but not translated (in the very end of "Holzarten") fitting German
standards
(and somehow related to EC-Standard 2003/0139 (COD)/KOM(2003) 379 (??
) - We envisage the standards being applied to all forest and wood
products
and that would include recycling material. That is part of our
investigation
on the TC and we'll get back to you when we can.
We also see the standards and associated lists being owned by the TC
to
which any organisation or individual can join. We will however work with
you
to take this forward if we can.
Kind Regards
Steve
Steve Atkins
Head of Finance Systems Development
Direct Line 0131 314 6318
Mobile 07721 558127
________________________________
From: Pikl Kurt [mailto:Kurt.Pikl@egger.com]
Sent: 22 January 2007 14:07
To: steve.atkins@forestry.gsi.gov.uk
Cc: Paterson John
Subject: WG: Normen
Hello Steve!
thank you for your input. I would be glad, if you could help me more in
details. I so far worked on the German standard ELDAT and the (very
simular -
but not the same) standard FHPDAT for Austria. I am finished with version
1.0 - so I would like to "look over the boarder" now. My project CoSeMat
contains 3 part-projects
* standardizing the "product wood"
* standardizing the partner-information (using Dun&Bradstreet
DUNS-Number)
* standardizing the interface for data transports (using a
internet-portal
nexmart - the name might be different)
maybe you could read the concept on
http://www.commonsense.at/5_en_more.htm
<http://www.commonsense.at/5_en_more.htm> (download)
I believe, that OASIS is more the interface (EDIFACT etc) and is
completely
different from German/AUstria Standards. Of cource - I did expect this,
therefore I would like to use a clearing-center, where on one side the
indu
stry sends data (preferred but not decided PAPINET) and on the other side
the
forestry-industrie can attach with there Interfaces - but only ONCE -
organized by organization like you (or KWF in Germany or FHP in Austria).
you can find the database-content (exported to excel) in the
download-center
on http://www.commonsense.at/CommMat_en.htm
<http://www.commonsense.at/CommMat_en.htm> translated in english. I
would
realy appreciate if you cou
ld help me - I would need the input from a (native) speaker with
wood-experience.
the wood-species are from EN 13556 with additional wood-species (mainly
summaries like "needlewood" etc) - at the end of the Excel "Holzarten
Version
1.0.xls".
the "characteristics" of wood are
* Class Klasse.xls
* Usage class Verwendungsklasse.xls
* Certificate Zertifikat.xls
* Quality/Grade Qualitaet.xls
* Settlement length Abrechnungslaenge.xls
* Bark condition Rindenzustand.xls
* Thickness class Staerkenklasse.xls
a sample of the output is under Artikel EAN.xls however the numbering
is not
EAN (anymore) it is a plain CoSeMat-Number
if you want to help me, I would like to ask you the following
questions:
* if you see a translation, which is not correct or does not fit
"wood-language" please correct it directly in the Excel, mark it (colour)
and
send it to me - I will correct the database
* the most important - do you see a chance, that the principle fits for
GB?
if so, I could meet you in GB to go into the details and explain the
project more in details
* are you handling recycling-material as well? I have defined the
material -
but not translated (in the very end of "Holzarten") fitting German
standards
(and somehow related to EC-Standard 2003/0139 (COD)/KOM(2003) 379 (??)
the "busines-model" would be, that the portal (mapping) is "owned" by
organisations like you (+KWF+FHP+??) - that seems to be the only way to
have
as less as possible co-ordination. But this would be a discussion, we
should
have in a personal meeting.
I would look forward to hear from you
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Kurt Pikl
CIO Chief Information Officer
Fritz Egger GmbH & Co.
Holzwerkstoffe
Weiberndorf 20
A-6380 St. Johann in Tirol
Tel: +43 (0) 50600-10250
Mobil: +43 (0) 664/1358456
Fax: +43 (0) 50600-90250
e-mail: mailto:kurt.pikl@egger.com <mailto:kurt.pikl@egger.com>
Internet: http://www.egger.com <http://www.egger.com>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Cramer Bertram
Gesendet: Montag, 22. Jänner 2007 14:32
An: Pikl Kurt
Betreff: WG: Normen
Hallo Herr Pikl,
anbei einie Infos aus UK bez. Standards.
Gruß
B.C.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Dotlinger Simon
Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2007 12:40
An: Cramer Bertram
Betreff: RE: Normen
Hallo Bertram,
am besten ist wenn du dieses mail an Kurt weiterleitest. In den links
sind
alle Informationen enthalten und fuer Kurt waere auch eine Ansprechperson
wenn
er moechte.
Gruss
-----Original Message-----
From: Atkins, Steve [mailto:steve.atkins@forestry.gsi.gov.uk
<mailto:steve.atkins@forestry.gsi.gov.uk> ]
Sent: 22 January 2007 11:13
To: Paterson John
Subject: RE: Electronic Trading
John,
I refer to our discussion today when you informed me that the Head of
IT in
your parent company was seeking information about use of data standards
in
European countries where Egger has a presence.
Within the UK we have developed the eFIDS data standards for use
throughout
the complete supply chain of the forest industry. This covers from
Grower to
Processor through to End User. eFIDS are already in use across this
supply chain within the UK and we have recently had them adopted by
OASIS, the
global open standards organisation, in order
to widen their use internationally. Within OASIS we have set up a
Forest Industries Technical Committee (TC) who have already met on a
couple
of occasions. Egger, or anyone else, are free to join OASIS and
participate
in the work of the TC.
I have attached some links below that will hopefully assist you.
http://www.forestryscotland.com/ebusiness_forum/tp1.asp?parent_id=2
<http://www.forestryscotland.com/ebusiness_forum/tp1.asp?parent_id=2>
The above link is to the forestry eBusiness Forum (EBF). This gives
background information on what we have been doing to promote e-business
in UK
Forestry. If you look under the What We Do link you will see reference
to D
ata Standards and in particular to e-trading standards
http://www.forestryscotland.com/ebusiness_forum/tp1.asp?parent_id=3&sele
<http://www.forestryscotland.com/ebusiness_forum/tp1.asp?parent_id=3&sele>
ct_id=13&expand=12
This link specifically refers to eFIDS and provides links to the
standards.
However as we are in the process of moving them to OASIS there are some
out of
date references, e.g. to CITE who used to host the standards.
We are in the process of setting up the OASIS site and I include some
useful
links.
http://www.oasis-open.org/who/ <http://www.oasis-open.org/who/> - this
explains what OASIS does.
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/forest/charter.php
<http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/forest/charter.php> - this
explains the
purpose of the Forest Industries TC.
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/documents.php?wg_abbrev=forest
<http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/documents.php?wg_abbrev=forest> if
you
download the document eFIDS FAQ2.doc this provides Frequently Asked Quest
ions on eFIDS. (note this will be uploaded to the FAQ link on the site
shortly).
I trust the above will prove to be useful. You can refer any other
queries
to myself or other members of the OASIS TC as required.
Regards
Steve
+++++ The Forestry Commission's computer systems may be monitored and
+++++ communications carried out on them recorded, to secure the
+++++ effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.
+++++ +++++
The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government
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-----Original Message-----
From: Cramer Bertram
Sent: 16 January 2007 08:23
To: Dotlinger Simon
Subject: Normen
Hallo Simon,
ich hoffe es geht dir gut. Ich wünsche dir für 2007 noch alles Gute.
Wir (hauptsächlich Kurt Pikl) arbeiten derzeit im deutschsprachigen
Raum an
einem elektronischen Datenaustausch zwischen Lieferanten (Waldbesitzer,
Sägewerk) und Kunden (EGGER). Hier gab es schon viele Initiativen, die
immer im Sande verlaufen sind auf Grund der Komplexität. Pikl hat sich
nun
der Sache angenommen und möchte gleich alle europäischen Länder mit
einbeziehen. Er fragt mich nun, ob es in England bereits vorhandene Stand
ards oder Normen für eine elektronische Datenübermittlung gibt. Hat sich
vielleicht schon jemand in England darüber Gedanken gemacht? Könntest du
das
bitte mal kurz mit John besprechen und mir wieder bescheitgeben. Al
so Normen oder Standards, in denen Holzarten, Güte, Sorte, Qualitäten,
Längen
usw. standartisiert elektronisch zwischen Lieferanten und Kunden
übergeben
werden können. John müsste das wissen, wenn es derartige St
andards in UK gibt. Vielen Dank.
Thorsten und ich hatten kürzlich vorbesprochen, dass wir in der KW. 6
nach
Hexham kommen. Leider hat Thorsten einen Bandscheibenvorfall erlitten und
musste kurzfristig operiert werden. Er fällt für die nächsten 4 Wochen
aus.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Bertram Cramer
Leitung Einkauf Holz Gruppe
EGGER Holzwerkstoffe Brilon GmbH & Co. KG
Im Kissen 19
D-59929 Brilon
Tel: +49 (0) 2961/770-22360
Mobil: +49 (0) 170/8510826
Fax: +49 (0) 2961/770-62360
e-mail: mailto:bertram.cramer@egger.com
<mailto:bertram.cramer@egger.com>
Internet: http://www.egger.com <http://www.egger.com>
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+++++ The Forestry Commission's computer systems may be monitored and
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s
ervices. For more information about this please visit www.cctmark.gov.uk
+++++ The Forestry Commission's computer systems may be monitored and
communications carried out on them recorded, to secure the effective
operation
of the system and for other lawful purposes. +++++
The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government
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On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free
PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET.
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rvices. For more information about this please visit www.cctmark.gov.uk
+++++ The Forestry Commission's computer systems may be monitored and
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operation
of the system and for other lawful purposes. +++++
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