OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

fwsi message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]

Subject: Re: [ebsoa] RE: [fwsi] RE: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real SOA challenge?

David, I do not want to argue about the history. SOA (Web Services, ebXML, and many other SOA related concepts, standards, etc.) has not suddenly emerged from nowhere.
Suresh, if I understand correctly your point, you think that the business process modeling, grouping and taxonomy of processes are important SOA enablers. I completely agree with you. It is very important but not the only aspect of the entire SOA picture. What I am also interested in is the SOA enterprise architecture and real alignment between the business and technology. No marketing hype but real stuff. These are my questions. Not only for you but for everybody on this thread. I am just using these questions to continue with discussion. Do not worry I will provide my answers later and I hope that you will keep adding new questions as well. The more questions and the more discussions trying to form answers the better. I am sure we will not change the world but at least we can start to communicate more often and exchange ideas.  
1. How do we integrate business processes we model as services and technology? Here I mean a real automatic integration without army of developers working on the "SOA Enterprise Architecture"  to implement processes just modeled or to implement changes just introduced. To me that kind of architecture is not SOA. That is old school which we shortly talked about in our history introduction.
2. How do we make SOA agile? Again automatic implementation of changes without coding and both static and dynamic. 
3. How do we model and support business process semantics? Not just message exchanges and message routing.
4. How do we use standards and support standard convergence?
5. What is our SOA Reference Model?
6. What is our complete SOA reference architecture?
7. Do we have an SOA methodology and what the SOA methodology is all about?
8. What are our SOA best practices?
9. What are the most critical SOA missing points and failures so far and how to fix them or not repeat them?
10. What is the overall OASIS plan with regards to SOA, SOA TCs related work and their relationship?
11. How can we start to work together and use each others "products"?
12. How can we (TCs and OASIS) convince more leading vendors to be involved in the SOA specs development and start using SOA specs we are working on?
I think that we should keep the entire original content of the messages for the completeness of the thread.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:06 PM
Subject: RE: [ebsoa] RE: [fwsi] RE: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real SOA challenge?

I am new to the group.  Please bear with me if I do not understand how this works.
Agree 100% with David Webber, the key is in this point that David makes  "So much for history - no need to dwell there - the challenge now is to bring real business enabled XML-driven processes and SOA to fruition."
Which means we need to clearly address:
1. SOA and processes integration by broad domains (Finance, Telco, Transport, Defence, Government etc.) We could use models such as the eTOM as a starting point.
2. Establish a standard grouping of processes within the business domains
3. Then look at which of these can be enabled using XML.
4. In Australia the DOMEDI group did similar work in the Transport domain (thouogh for a different purpose)
5. Finally a taxonomy of the business, processes, enablers and XML transactions
Regards.  Suresh
Dr. Suresh Hungenahally| Capgemini | Melbourne
Senior Manager
477 Collin St. Melbourne 3000 Australia
T.  + 61 3 9613 3343 | M. + 61 402 408 816| F. + 61 3 9613 3333. 
E. suresh.hungenahally@capgemini.com   |   www.capgemini.com
Join the Collaborative Business Experience

From: David Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info]
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2005 2:55 PM
To: goran.zugic@semantion.com; Duane Nickull; John Hardin; Jones, Steve
Cc: McGregor.Wesley@tbs-sct.gc.ca; fwsi@lists.oasis-open.org; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; semantic-ex@lists.oasis-open.org; jamie.clark@oasis-open.org; soa-blueprints@lists.oasis-open.org; vasco.drecun@cpd-associates.com; goran.zugic@semantion.com
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] RE: [fwsi] RE: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real SOA challenge?

While I like what you say vis SOA here - I have to take you to task on history ; -)
The ebXML foundation came out of the work of the XML/edi Group aligned with the work of CEFACT on ooEDI.
It completely breaks the mold on EDI.  Yes - things like ebMS are founded on EDI+ communications - but the core of the ebXMl stack - registry-centric XML-driven collaboration - and the notion of the "Fusion of Five" is designed to sweep away the old EDI practices.  Unfortunately XML as implemented today is nothing more than a slightly better EDI.  The whole XML revolution is yet to truely take hold.
As for web services - this was a shameless grab by IBM and Microsoft - attempting to be first to market ahead of ebXML with concepts that in essence are nothing more than "real-time EDI" - with all the same strengths and weaknesses of the
original real-time EDI implementations - just using XML and the internet instead of EDI and private networks.
So much for history - no need to dwell there - the challenge now is to bring real business enabled XML-driven processes and SOA to fruition.
Cheers, DW
----- Original Message -----
 For example, Web Services are initiated with an idea of services introduced by Microsoft 6-7 years ago and this idea has been formed from distributed computing and component-based computing ideas and "learn on mistakes" lessons from many organizations in 80s and 90s; ebXML is mostly based on EDI ideas and "learn on mistakes" lessons, etc.
This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]