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Subject: Re: [ebsoa] RE: [fwsi] RE: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real SOA challenge?
It's all very simple from my standpoint: Federated Trust Network Federated Registry / Repository Customized Executable Business Process which operate on those federated networks..... Goran Zugic wrote: > David, I do not want to argue about the history. SOA (Web Services, > ebXML, and many other SOA related concepts, standards, etc.) has not > suddenly emerged from nowhere. > > Suresh, if I understand correctly your point, you think that the > business process modeling, grouping and taxonomy of processes are > important SOA enablers. I completely agree with you. It is very > important but not the only aspect of the entire SOA picture. What I am > also interested in is the SOA enterprise architecture and real alignment > between the business and technology. No marketing hype but real stuff. > These are my questions. Not only for you but for everybody on this > thread. I am just using these questions to continue with discussion. Do > not worry I will provide my answers later and I hope that you will keep > adding new questions as well. The more questions and the more > discussions trying to form answers the better. I am sure we will not > change the world but at least we can start to communicate more often and > exchange ideas. > > 1. How do we integrate business processes we model as services and > technology? Here I mean a real automatic integration without army of > developers working on the "SOA Enterprise Architecture" to implement > processes just modeled or to implement changes just introduced. To me > that kind of architecture is not SOA. That is old school which we > shortly talked about in our history introduction. > > 2. How do we make SOA agile? Again automatic implementation of changes > without coding and both static and dynamic. > > 3. How do we model and support business process semantics? Not just > message exchanges and message routing. > > 4. How do we use standards and support standard convergence? > > 5. What is our SOA Reference Model? > > 6. What is our complete SOA reference architecture? > > 7. Do we have an SOA methodology and what the SOA methodology is all about? > > 8. What are our SOA best practices? > > 9. What are the most critical SOA missing points and failures so far and > how to fix them or not repeat them? > > 10. What is the overall OASIS plan with regards to SOA, SOA TCs related > work and their relationship? > > 11. How can we start to work together and use each others "products"? > > 12. How can we (TCs and OASIS) convince more leading vendors to be > involved in the SOA specs development and start using SOA specs we are > working on? > > > I think that we should keep the entire original content of the messages > for the completeness of the thread. > > Goran > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Hungenahally, Suresh <mailto:suresh.hungenahally@capgemini.com> > *To:* David Webber (XML) <mailto:david@drrw.info> ; > goran.zugic@semantion.com <mailto:goran.zugic@semantion.com> ; Duane > Nickull <mailto:dnickull@adobe.com> ; John Hardin > <mailto:john@maphin.net> ; Jones, Steve > <mailto:steve.g.jones@capgemini.com> > *Cc:* McGregor.Wesley@tbs-sct.gc.ca > <mailto:McGregor.Wesley@tbs-sct.gc.ca> ; fwsi@lists.oasis-open.org > <mailto:fwsi@lists.oasis-open.org> ; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org > <mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org> ; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org > <mailto:ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org> ; > semantic-ex@lists.oasis-open.org > <mailto:semantic-ex@lists.oasis-open.org> ; > jamie.clark@oasis-open.org <mailto:jamie.clark@oasis-open.org> ; > soa-blueprints@lists.oasis-open.org > <mailto:soa-blueprints@lists.oasis-open.org> ; > vasco.drecun@cpd-associates.com > <mailto:vasco.drecun@cpd-associates.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:06 PM > *Subject:* RE: [ebsoa] RE: [fwsi] RE: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real > SOA challenge? > > Hi, > > I am new to the group. Please bear with me if I do not understand > how this works. > > Agree 100% with David Webber, the key is in this point that David > makes "So much for history - no need to dwell there - the challenge > now is to bring *real business enabled XML-driven processes and SOA > to fruition."* > ** > Which means we need to clearly address: > > 1. SOA and processes integration by broad domains (Finance, Telco, > Transport, Defence, Government etc.) We could use models such as the > eTOM as a starting point. > 2. Establish a standard grouping of processes within the business > domains > 3. Then look at which of these can be enabled using XML. > 4. In Australia the DOMEDI group did similar work in the Transport > domain (thouogh for a different purpose) > 5. Finally a taxonomy of the business, processes, enablers and XML > transactions > > Regards. Suresh > > ________________________________________________ > > Dr. Suresh Hungenahally| *Capgemini* | Melbourne > Senior Manager > 477 Collin St. Melbourne 3000 Australia > T. + 61 3 9613 3343 | M. + 61 402 408 816| F. + 61 3 9613 3333. > E. _suresh.hungenahally_@capgemini.com > <mailto:suresh.hungenahally@capgemini.com> | www.capgemini.com > <http://www.capgemini.com> > > *Join the Collaborative Business Experience* > ________________________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* David Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info] > *Sent:* Wednesday, 16 November 2005 2:55 PM > *To:* goran.zugic@semantion.com <mailto:goran.zugic@semantion.com>; > Duane Nickull; John Hardin; Jones, Steve > *Cc:* McGregor.Wesley@tbs-sct.gc.ca; fwsi@lists.oasis-open.org; > soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; > semantic-ex@lists.oasis-open.org; jamie.clark@oasis-open.org; > soa-blueprints@lists.oasis-open.org; > vasco.drecun@cpd-associates.com; goran.zugic@semantion.com > *Subject:* Re: [ebsoa] RE: [fwsi] RE: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real > SOA challenge? > > Goran, > > While I like what you say vis SOA here - I have to take you to task > on history ; -) > > The ebXML foundation came out of the work of the XML/edi Group > aligned with the work of CEFACT on ooEDI. > > It completely breaks the mold on EDI. Yes - things like ebMS are > founded on EDI+ communications - but the core of the ebXMl stack - > registry-centric XML-driven collaboration - and the notion of the > "Fusion of Five" is designed to sweep away the old EDI practices. > Unfortunately XML as implemented today is nothing more than a > slightly better EDI. The whole XML revolution is yet to truely take > hold. > > As for web services - this was a shameless grab by IBM and Microsoft > - attempting to be first to market ahead of ebXML with concepts that > in essence are nothing more than "real-time EDI" - with all the same > strengths and weaknesses of the > original real-time EDI implementations - just using XML and the > internet instead of EDI and private networks. > > So much for history - no need to dwell there - the challenge now is > to bring real business enabled XML-driven processes and SOA to fruition. > > Cheers, DW > > ----- Original Message ----- > For example, Web Services are initiated with an idea of > services introduced by Microsoft 6-7 years ago and this idea has > been formed from distributed computing and component-based > computing ideas and "learn on mistakes" lessons from many > organizations in 80s and 90s; ebXML is mostly based on EDI ideas > and "learn on mistakes" lessons, etc. > > This message contains information that may be privileged or > confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is > intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not > the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, > retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any > part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify > the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message. > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | john c hardin | Chief Technology Officer | http://www.maphin.net | 606.598.7353 office | 606.813.4316 cell | mailto:john@maphin.net | | Chair - OASIS ebSOA Technical Committee | http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa | | | "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the | image of a global village." | | Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962 |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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