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Subject: [humanmarkup] HN.requirements Chat Transcript

Title: HN.requirements Chat Transcript
Here is the chat transcript from last night's session discussion of HM.requirements, as I indicated I would present it in the voting message I posted previously. If you are persistent enough to read it, you will see the numerous times Yahoo IM bounced people out of the conference. We definitely need a better alternative, and I have found one called Paltalk, but haven't tested it yet.


Yahoo! Messenger: You are now logged into voice conference - rexbroo-727.

Yahoo! Messenger: rkthunga has joined the conference.

rexbroo: Hi Ranjeeth, how're ya doin'?

rkthunga: tired...as I'm sure you are this time of day ...but doing well

rkthunga: how are you?

rexbroo: okay. no big complaints.

rexbroo: How did your day go?

rkthunga: ok I guess..I got a new Handspring pocket organizer and date book, which I feel will be a good way to prepare for getting HM.org established

rexbroo: For taking contact info on the fly?

rkthunga: yeah...i had a Palm before, but the software I was running on it was fairly primitive. I took some time to survey different alternatives this time around.

rkthunga: I think you would never buy a PDA, correct?

rexbroo: I don't know. Not if I can avoid it certainly, but I swore I would never get an answering machine or a laptop.

rkthunga: (btw, you might want to invite Rob as well...quantumevent1)

rexbroo: Did that.

rkthunga: is he here?

Yahoo! Messenger: quantumevent1 has joined the conference.

quantumevent1: I'm here

rkthunga: strange......i think yahoo had a hiccup or something

rexbroo: Oh, okay.

Yahoo! Messenger: quantumevent1 has declined to join and sent: Thanks, but no thanks.

Yahoo! Messenger: quantumevent1 has left the conference.

rkthunga: another burp

Yahoo! Messenger: quantumevent1 has joined the conference.

quantumevent1: I'm back

rexbroo: There we go. Yeah Yahoo has been on the blink lately. I think Mae West is the culprit.

rexbroo: That's the big switch in San Jose.

quantumevent1: Ah....

rexbroo: They are upgrading.

rexbroo: We might a

rexbroo: give it a few more minutes.

quantumevent1: ok

rexbroo: Kurt said he would probably be late, and i think Sylvia wanted to attend, too, but she is in the boonies of New Mexico.

rexbroo: So she may not be able to a connection.

rkthunga: sounds good...i just got in myself, so we could say 10:15pm perhaps?

rexbroo: Not that long, just another five minutes or so.

quantumevent1: what ever works for everyone, I'll be here

rexbroo: I had a chat with Kurt today, so I can catch you guys u on that.

quantumevent1: shoot

rexbroo: I was trying to settle on a strategy to get a STTR award from DoD.

rexbroo: The deadline is April 17.

rexbroo: And it turns out that we are smack in the middle of spring break for the academics.

rexbroo: So I can't get hold of anyone at NPS or UPenn. But I thought I would go ahead and select a topic area that would fit us, and found one. I will send info about it to the .org tomorrow.

rexbroo: But anyway, the gist is that Humanmarkup.org would have to be the Research Institution and Cagle Communications the Small Business in rder for this to work out.

rexbroo: But, since we got our 501 (c) (3) for educational reasons, we actually fit the bill.

quantumevent1: Cagle is the 503(c)?

rexbroo: The topic is too long to go into here.

quantumevent1: sorry 501(c)

rexbroo: No, Humanmarkup.org, Inc. is the 501 (c)(3)

Yahoo! Messenger: rkthunga has left the conference.

rexbroo: But for the STTR, Small Business Technology Transfer Program, there has to be a small business and Resarch intstitution team, and the small biz is th operational administrative end of it the team. I would be consulting for Cagle writing it up and doing all that work, but I will let my email tomorrow explain it.

rexbroo: We lost Ranjeeth, darn.

Yahoo! Messenger: rkthunga has joined the conference.

rexbroo: Welcome back.

rexbroo: Shall we get started, then?

quantumevent1: I'm ready

rexbroo: Me too.

rexbroo: Ranjeeth?

rkthunga: I'm ready! Go ahead and lead the discussion Rex.

rexbroo: Well, as far as I'm concerned the document is ready to go. I just want to hear what anyone has to say.

rexbroo: That last batch of changes was all in the PROCESS REQUIREMENTS section.

rexbroo: I checked with Karl and his reply was posted to the lists, and I have talked to Sylvia about it, so she is up to speed, with some trepidations, but no deal breakers.

quantumevent1: That was my impression as well from the feed back

rexbroo: I asked Kurt to double check that last little bit about SHOULD NOT allow applications which nullify the specification.

rexbroo: But I haven't heard back from him yet.

rkthunga: (i'm re-reviewing it...a couple of mins)

rexbroo: Take your time, I aint goin nowhere.

rexbroo: But, I am having a tired attack all of a sudden.

rexbroo: brb

rkthunga: ok

rexbroo: I'm back with a dose of diet caffeine coke.

rkthunga: a couple of minor point...

rkthunga: points

rkthunga: I think the 'Terminology' section should have a more consistent format.

rexbroo: I still haven't heard back from the guy from H-P to find out if they are gonna have a phone line for me on April 17, for our meeting, which is currently coinciding with the first day of the 2nd f2f for WSIA, which is a drag.

rkthunga: There are three different formats used for the definitions

rexbroo: Actually just two and a url reference.

rexbroo: But, besides aesthetics, what's the problem?

rexbroo: At this point, that's way too big a change for me.

rkthunga: We could probably define 'SCHEMA' and 'RDF SCHEMA' explicitly

rexbroo: If that was going to be a point, it should have come up before now. We shouldn't make any changes that are large like that.

rexbroo: Ranjeeth?

rkthunga: sometimes we don't think of these things in the timeframe they should fall in, but that's my opinion

rexbroo: At this point if it isn't a dealbreaker, I don't want to do it.

rkthunga: they are already defined...just that we have them listed in a 'note:', rather than as separate definitions. It doesn't seem like a big change to me.

rexbroo: I would be happy to consider things like changing a word here and there, but otherwise we can vote it down and start over.

rexbroo: It's like this: I can see giving everyone three days, Thurs, Fri, Sat to read it and vote up or down, or say nothing and let it go the way it is. But any reworking, like changing the format for a whole critical section is too much.

rexbroo: When we set a process, we either stick with it, or we don't have a process.

quantumevent1: I think I agree with Rex on this

rexbroo: The fact of the matter is that we will be reading these documents and wanting to make changes or wishing we had said things a little differently for months.

rexbroo: And, we can always decide to change em later.

quantumevent1: Very true

rkthunga: It's fine with me. I don't think any of the changes I have are critical at this point.

rexbroo: I don't want to run over you Ranjeeth, but you should propose something like a specific kind of reworking earlier in this kind of process.

rexbroo: And, I think we should state that this subject to change, not in the document, but I will say it in the post I make tomorrow asking that everyone remember that this is just the first "working draft" not a final document.

rkthunga: I understand...I'm just providing my insights as they come to me right now...timing may be off, and I acknowledge that

rexbroo: In fact, we should probably say that from now until say, six months from now is the period of RFC, you think?

rexbroo: Actually maybe 3 months is better. Six months will have everyone putting it off indefinitely.

quantumevent1: You think it can be done in 3 months?

rexbroo: And we can say that a revision is necessary based on comments and on what we learn from writing the base primary schema.

rkthunga: Six months would allow us the ability to leverage the .org's 501(c)3 status to help promote and seek contributions for this effort.

rexbroo: I think it is necessary to start out that way, understanding that it may be necessary to put it off until just before we think we have a good working draft of the first schema.

rexbroo: or schemata if we can get more than the base done.

rkthunga: I don't mean financial in this sense, but technical and conceptual contributions

rexbroo: Six months is okay then. But if we say that we should probably make it a hard target date, not tentativem such as I would if it were 3 months.

quantumevent1: I agree. 6mo should be the line.

rexbroo: Yeah, I know you're right. I just hate to cave in to summer vacation schedules this early in spring.

rexbroo: But, okay six months it is.

quantumevent1: vacations? what are those.... Sounds good

rkthunga: supposedly they are a time of relaxation and peace...rumor has it

rexbroo: Vacations are those things that other people do that piss me off because I can't get anything done. When I take a vacation, I am usually dragged kickin an screamin, for me a vacation is day hike.

quantumevent1: Perhaps we can place an internal target of 4-5mo on our core efforts, not to exceed 6mo.

rexbroo: That sounds better to me, but i think we should just say six months and really mean it.

rkthunga: and in our minds we can think 4.5 months

quantumevent1: Yes. Exactly

rexbroo: okay. I'll vote for that.

Yahoo! Messenger: rkthunga has left the conference.

quantumevent1: lost Ranjeeth again

rexbroo: And in the meantime, what did you guys thinka bout the suggestion of combining HumanML_Write/Report with Conflict Resolution and Diplomatic Negotiations?

Yahoo! Messenger: rkthunga has joined the conference.

rexbroo: And in the meantime, what did you guys thinka bout the suggestion of combining HumanML_Write/Report with Conflict Resolution and Diplomatic And in the meantime, what did you guys thinka bout the suggestion of combining HumanML_Write/Report with Conflict Resolution and Diplomatic Negotiations?

rexbroo: oops.

quantumevent1: This would give the Write/Report something to play with... is that the thinking?

rkthunga: Unfortunately, that's not gonna happen with me.

rexbroo: I think I'll copy and paste copy and paste copy and...

rkthunga: Hopefully it'll be modular, but I simply won't be able to integrate with Joe on this one...it's complex enough as it stands

rexbroo: okay. it was just a thought. The schemas for them looked like they could be combined together.

rkthunga: Besides, he's gone and I don't know where

rexbroo: Well that explains why I haven't heard from him. I wrote to him today and got nada.

rexbroo: I was hoping our small success would be stimulating to all of us

quantumevent1: I'll take it.

rexbroo: Uh Ranjeeth, why don't you write down all of your thoughts about the requirements document that you were thinking about, and we'll collect them into the Request For Comments thread?

rkthunga: that sounds like a plan. I'll do that.

rkthunga: They can be saved for the new round.

quantumevent1: The new round starts after 31st?

rexbroo: Just because the thoughts don't happen on schedule doesn't mean they aren't good or worthy of adoption, just not in time for the extent of change.

rexbroo: Yes.

quantumevent1: Good

rkthunga: sounds like a plan. good.

rexbroo: Well, that's it for me. I'm no open to any sort of silliness.

rexbroo: now open.

rexbroo: I could use some silliness, honestly.

rkthunga: one more thing...the OASIS TC site needs an update on the 'Announcements' Section

rexbroo: The world is too much with me today.

quantumevent1: Watch Monty Python's Parrot scketch... that'll do it

rexbroo: You write, I'll post it, okay?

rkthunga: Sounds good....how about a dose of 

rkthunga: before you

rkthunga: (and who thought emoticons weren't able to express all of human emotion!!!)

rexbroo: Did you have any luck on the xml.gov and FreedomeBrigade front, with Mr. Bridge?

rkthunga: FreedomBrigade's initial phone people turned me away, although I got away with a free brochure

rkthunga: Rob, do you own a PDA?

quantumevent1: (2) Visor and Clie'

rkthunga: 3 PDA's?

quantumevent1: My wife has 6

rkthunga: 6???

quantumevent1: She sort of has c

rkthunga: doing research on HD Space, correct?

quantumevent1: yes

rexbroo: HyperDimensional?

quantumevent1: She collects them.... can't get rid of them..

rkthunga: maybe you have some advice for me...I am looking for the best application to manage humanmarkup contacts and fundraising leads...do you have any recommendations?

quantumevent1: I used to use Contact! but now just the address books, and Memo... no special apps

rexbroo: Does your PDA talk to your desktops?

rkthunga: of course!

quantumevent1: Both the Visor and Clie' have their own USB connections

rexbroo: Then I would use what ever you use most on the desktop boxes.

rkthunga: One thing missing is an XML editor for the Palm...there exists none

rkthunga: anywhere

rexbroo: You know ZDNet AnchorDesk?

rexbroo: The daily columns this week have been on mobile computing. Todays and yesterdays were pda stuff.

rkthunga: thanks for the lead Rex

rkthunga: anyway, don't want to keep you guys...Rob, you live in the DC area, correct?

quantumevent1: North of Chicago ( 180 mi )

quantumevent1: Sometimes in Florida

rkthunga: ok, got my bearings crossed...

rexbroo: Ru guys okay with a Sunday evening chat for the .org? or is it better in the am?

quantumevent1: Either should work...(as far as I know now)

rkthunga: Sunday 8am EST is the best for me...Rob, you never attended the chat's for the .org, but you're very much welcome to join of course.

rexbroo: Oops.

rkthunga: Actually, I would prefer to do our weekly informal TC chat at the same time.

rkthunga: weekdays don't work that well.

rexbroo: I want to cover a lot of ground, and I just assumed Rob would want to get involved, since the DARPA STTR is the main project I have lined up, and then it is back to beating the bushes for fundraising.

quantumevent1: If I can be of some help (re: .org)

rexbroo: I would rather not get the two tangled up together.

rkthunga: we'll keep them separate meetings, until the .org formally becomes an OASIS sponsor

rexbroo: You can be of great help, perhaps not in the Phase I, STTR, but there is a new SBIR round coming in May, and i want to tie all of these together into a single project.

quantumevent1: Count me in then

quantumevent1: perfect

rkthunga: ok, are you guys up for starting at 7am? 7am we can have our .org meeting, and 8am we can have our TC meeting? I KNOW that's early, even for EST, but the earlier it is, the more consistently I can be there.

quantumevent1: On Sunday. Correct?

rkthunga: yeah

quantumevent1: I'm be there

rexbroo: Its not very workable, but it is their topic, we can only choose from among those available and this is the one with the word "human" in it the most, and which is actually something we can do, if a bit of stretch, but the fact that Ranjeeth just mentioned, about not having a pda with xml editor is exactly what we need to produce for a low bandwidth environment.

rexbroo: You're aware that that is 4 am for me?

rkthunga: Just how you like it

rkthunga: of course its early......if it's not workable, we can work out something else

rexbroo: That was in winter. This is spring. My biological clock is heading in the other direction, but I'll be there since you two are probably the only ones that will be there. Kurt and Joe are not really um...what's a pc term for reliable?

rexbroo: That's okay.

rexbroo: this time only. This is the big one.

rkthunga: If I'd be considered the reliable one, that's something new  Actually, I've been making slow and steady progress.

rexbroo: look for the material I need you guys to read tomorrow. It's not that long, but we need as many eyes and minds on it now as we can.

quantumevent1: Will do.

rexbroo: That's it for me then. Good luck on the PDA, and please let us know if you need anything to make a bigger impression in DC next month.

quantumevent1: Sounds good. G'night then.... back to work for me...

rexbroo: You know that's all going to coincide with the WSIA meetings in Palo Alto at Hewlett-Packard.

rkthunga: definitely I'll be in touch with you Rex...take care. Back to work? no kiddin!

rexbroo: Gonna be hectic. So we need to prepare now. Bye.

rexbroo: Take care guys.

rkthunga: Ok Rob, Rex...good night.

quantumevent1: bye.

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