humanmarkup message

Subject: [humanmarkup] Fwd: Re: Base Schema - measurement and self-comment

From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
To: humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org, humanmarkup@lists.oasis-open.org
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:49:04 -0700

Title: Fwd: Re: Base Schema - measurement and self-comment

Hi Folks,

Those who attended today's meeting might remember that I said I occasionally receive comments sent directly to me personally and that I ask permission before forwarding them, and I suggest doing so if you receive a personal reply to one of your posts and you think it is worth forwarding to our lists. I am forwarding this one because I received permission, and I also think that the point is pertinent.

Measurement systems can be used in many ways, and comparisons between items that are not related in a first order way, such as the costs/month of two telephone vendors are related in a first order sort of comparison, are often useful. The ability to be clear when such comparisons are made is one of the concerns we will certainly bear in mind in our language, so that we can communicate accurately and with impactfulness when needed.

Ciao,

Rex

Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:20:19 -0700
To: "CPPE/BOACOM Corp." <jeronimo@istar.ca>
From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
Subject: Re: Base Schema - measurement and self-comment
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:

Hi Jerome,

Please forgive my informality if it is inappropriate. This is a very pertinent question so I would like to have your permission to post it to the TC mailing list.

The question is very focused on the phrase, distinctive human values, and I think it deserves to be addressed both to you personally and to the list, so I will wait on posting a copy of this letter to the list until I have your permission.

Basically, the kind of value to which I was referring in relation to measurement as an element of our Primary Base Schema is one of quantity or amount. That is a numerical value that can be assigned to a physical object. So in that sense, when I said that I did not think there was a need for a physical measurement of a distinctly human value, what I meant was that I did not think there was a need for a new physical measurement for existing distinctly human values, meaning that we already have sufficient measurements available to use for such things body weight, height, eye color, distance between locations, cost of food in rural Uganda or upstate New York, etc.

However, you bring up a very important point in terms of comparing different kinds of values which can be compared on a numerical basis even if they are not alike in terms of what is measured. By associating two essentially different kinds of things that are seemingly unrelated in terms of cost per consideration such as the cost of stealth bomber and therefore the relative cost of the pilot's safety and security and the safety and security of the entire population of Haiti, you make it possible to see the relative worth of the items in a different light than that which is used to examine these items during a cost evaluation by a body which is considering spending money for those items, such as the U.S. Congress.

In this case I would say that the comparison is valuable to make, but I don't think that there are particular elements in the comparison as stated which one needs HumanML to clarify. However, there is a point in the comparison where HumanML could be valuable, and that would be in pointing out how needs/values differ by culture in allocating resources and in experiencing the realities of poverty and lack of opportunity. If such a comparison is presented to show the discrepancies responsible for engendering long-term generational anger and antipathy that result in measureable damage to humans on all sides of a given situation, THEN we may improve understanding and communication. The issue then becomes one of finding the most effective way to present information to gain understanding through carefully directed communications.

So, if I could have your permission to post this message to our public-comment list, I would appreciate it. It makes an important point that we should consider as we shape the Human Markup Language.

Thanks,

Rex Brooks

Dear Mr. Brooks

My only question
is whether
there are distinctly human values
for which we need to
have physical measurements?
I don't think so.(Rex Brooks)

In my very humble opinion, I would think that each of these statements would
merit consideration for action.
If there are no physical measurements for distinctive human values, then
there are very likely no other forms of measurement either, which is absurd
to say the least. (Jerome Michaud)

I have been following OASIS XML threads and your leadership in particular. I
am most fascinated but how much has to be done so quickly from the
commercial standpoint (dot org @ dot com or vice versa)and yet seems to
evolve so slowly from the from the dot edu perspective. i.e a recent IFIP
World Computer Congress in Montreal pointed this out to me.

One group presenter from Holland at the WCC IFIP refered to Maslow's
hierarchy of needs/values. For example, the safety and security needs of one
pilot in one Stealth airplane represents in economic terms, let's say the
safety and security needs of the entire population of Haiti for ten years.

How would the internet societies weight the relative values of the Stealth
pilot's life versus those of the population of Haiti?
Distinctive human values and not so distinctive internet measurement, I
feel.

Thanks again for accelrating the editor's learning curves. Jerome Michaud

Children's Charter Foundation CCF
Fondation Charte des enfants FCE
31,rue Hadley, Hull (Gatineau-Outaouais-QC.CA) J8Y 3K6
Tel 819-771-2040, Fax 819-776-0904
www.parlom.ca carta@istar.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starbourne.com>
To: <humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org>;
<humanmarkup@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 7:06 AM
Subject: [humanmarkup-comment] Base Schema - measurement

Disclaimer:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the
author @ the 10,000 and do not necessarily represent those
of BOACOM Corp, Children's Parliament inc.,
Children's Charter Foundation, or Jerome Michaud.
The contents are intended
only for the addressee and may contain confidential
and/or privileged material. If you are not the
intended recipient, please do not read, copy,
use or disclose this communication and notify
the sender. If you are the addressee, no guarantees
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or any other form of communication,channel or signal.
Read at your own biospheric and exospheric risk.

--

Rex Brooks
Starbourne Communications Design
1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA 94702 *510-849-2309
http://www.starbourne.com * rexb@starbourne.com

--

Rex Brooks
Starbourne Communications Design
1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA 94702 *510-849-2309
http://www.starbourne.com * rexb@starbourne.com