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Subject: [humanmarkup] PBS-Doc-haptic

Title: PBS-Doc-haptic
Not much changed except some descriptive text accounting for the notion of our stuff(ics) being united in one of their roles, as factors in communication. I was not comfortable or confident enough of our ground to add a set of clear coded examples, so I left it as was in terms of schema function. It is still an un-enumerated complexType.

Subject: [humanmarkup-comment] Base Schema-haptic

             From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
             To: humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org, humanmarkup@lists.oasis-open.org
             Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:40:31 -0700

      Hi Everyone,



      The element is a ComplexType and abstract . It does not reference
      other elements and is not used by other elements and belongs to the
      attribute group humlIentifierAtts.

      And that is where the easy categorization ends. I've been thinking
      about this element for a while now, and that is the reason why it ha
      taken me a while to get to it, rather than our other scheduled work,
      i.e. our most recent meeting. Rather than enumerate all the info in
      in the description which is fairly lengthy, I will have to ask that
      it be read because I want to suggest that we give this element quite
      a bit of thought. I do not in any way disagree with what Len has done
      in the straw man, and I will gladly accept that as the most useful
      definition of the term, but I think we need to consider it more
      deeply, especially as it relates to elements to come such as kinesic
      and proxemic.

      There are at least three areas that come under haptic.

      1. Touching behaviors involve the intimate, personal and social
      parameters which seem very much like they should either be their own
      elements as derivations or should be high level attributes, i.e.
      attributes of the Primary Base Element haptic itself and that would
      be the first time we would do that. I would prefer not to do that
      because I have always tried to avoid using attributes of elements
      wherever possible. They are messy and introduces a dose of
      computational complexity at a level in the processing of the XML
      schema that is a lot cleaner, faster, and easier without it. In
      addition, touching behaviors, as Len points out vary from culture to
      culture with differing rules for which body parts are used in various
      circumstances, as well as having great differences in the kinds of
      actions with which they are associated, such as hostility or

      2. Sensory channel functions for which an entire scientific
      discipline and literature exists--the mouse being an example of a
      haptic feedback-control mechanism.

      3. Emotional Communication, while it involves or can involve both
      touching and sensory channels extends outward as the interface for a
      wide number of actions and reactions of a non-verbal nature which
      either communicate something completely without combining with any
      verbal communications such as a kiss leading to sexual arousal and
      complete sexual acts or pulling the trigger of a gun which may end
      another human being's life, but which may or may not be an emotional
      communication per se.

      I suggest we spend some effort teasing these aspect of haptic apart
      and look at them in light of how they will be included in the
      semiotic engine for processing communications and how they will set a
      precedent for the other elements which fall into the non-verbal
      communications areas.

      Please noe that I have not addressed the datatyping values because
      they are amply covered by what Len has already set down. I don't
      think we need to noodle that any further. We just need to come to
      grips with the range of aspects we are considering, which, as I said,
      could easily just be going with what we already have and leaving it
      at that. However, before we do that, I think we need to consider
      these other issues.


      Subject: RE: [humanmarkup-comment] Base Schema-haptic

             From: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@ingr.com>
             To: 'Rex Brooks' <rexb@starbourne.com>, humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
             Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:02:30 -0500

      Haptics among other things force out the need to identify
      how to denote co-occurrence constraints.   For example, when
      the culture is Borg, the haptic values fall into say
      some range depending on the other relationships in effect
      at the time and place and objects present (the context).
      This aspect of situatedness that the KR folks talk about
      dominates the design of a description of a human

      That is why as I have been working the semiote requirements,
      I have found myself focusing more on individual selector
      types that have to be active in order for a semiote to
      choose among signs both to perceive (what we don't
      believe or understand, we don't note), and to send
      (our emotional values weight our selections even
      when logic says otherwise).  These selectors are
      activated by among other things, the **proximity** of
      other objects in the environment and the signs they
      can receive and emit, and will receive and emit.
      It begins to look very object-oriented in implementation,
      but a VRMLie usually understands how this is modeled
      in the coordinate space, and an AI guy knows how to
      represent the relationships in db objects that feed
      that real time engine.

      Seeing that early, I left a lot of the primaries
      abstract because I think we have to have some simple
      and reasonably uniform/universal definitions up
      there.  It is as said, a weak ontology because
      a strong one would quickly lead to fractures.
      Many object designs have weak abstract classes. 

      You are right, but haptic is just touching behavior.
      The rest has to be done in combinations of co-ocurring
      ranges of values of the other elements.  The combinations
      don't occur in the primary, but in the secondaries. Yes?


Subject: RE: [humanmarkup-comment] Base Schema-haptic

             From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
             To: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@ingr.com>,'Rex Brooks' <rexb@starbourne.com>,
             Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 07:37:10 -0700

      Yes. I'm just looking to tease out those relationships and the
      situatedness you mention, and which David Dodds is working on, too.
      Haptics per se is just touching behavior, but we have to make sure we
      demarcate where touching and sensing diverge, while recognizing that
      in some circumstances they merge.

      Not an easy distinction when sending and receiving get that close together.


Subject: RE: [humanmarkup-comment] Base Schema-haptic

             From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
             To: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@ingr.com>,'Rex Brooks' <rexb@starbourne.com>,
             Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:40:11 -0700

      I second the suggestion.


      At 11:08 AM -0500 8/23/02, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote:
      >Everyone might want to glance over this over
      >the weekend.
      >Don't get too lost in Gudwin's terminology, but
      >the models are sound.  Professor's and department
      >heads are entangled in the processes of education
      >and funding, publishing papers and accruing references
      >to their work as a means of creating authority
      >We just need schemas and running code for semiotes.
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
      >Good. That's what I'm looking for.

Subject: RE: [humanmarkup-comment] Base Schema-haptic

             From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
             To: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@ingr.com>,'Rex Brooks' <rexb@starbourne.com>,
             Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:48:06 -0700

      I forgot to add that the math for matching and mapping patterns is
      most likely going to come from Wolfram's work, but I wouldn't want to
      bog anyone down right now, except Sylvia, with the suggestion that
      they have the Wolfram book to hand while going through Gudwin's work.
      Rob's already done it and I'm slogging through it in parallel with
      the process of examining the elements in the Base Schema.

      When I think about how these apparently separate studies that have
      each been assiduously worked on over the last twenty years, actually
      work together I am put in mind of the Grateful Dead song, "What a
      long strange trip, it's been."

      I still second the suggestion.


Subject: RE: [humanmarkup-comment] Base Schema-haptic

             From: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@ingr.com>
             To: 'Rex Brooks' <rexb@starbourne.com>, humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
             Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:36:30 -0500

      Let us be the proof of the triumph of
      tinkering over theorizing.  We are the
      strange attractors. :-)


Subject: RE: [humanmarkup-comment] Base Schema-haptic

             From: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@ingr.com>
             To: 'Rex Brooks' <rexb@starbourne.com>, humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
             Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:42:32 -0500

      My first stab at that would be a proximity-driven
      definition in which each member depending on
      internal learned contexts in relationship to
      the real time situation has different values
      for touching and what the signs indicate,
      typically, a polarity where on that scale,
      each gets a different value in a highly
      mixed set (different internal values because
      of different internal contexts, but mediated
      by awareness of the social context; in Rome
      do as Romans do, so the signs they emit will
      be mediated); and fairly similar if flocking
      (relatively similar values in the same culture
      in the same context).

      Makes for a nicely creative scene of networked


Subject: RE: [humanmarkup-comment] Base Schema-haptic

             From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
             To: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@ingr.com>,'Rex Brooks' <rexb@starbourne.com>,
             Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 06:29:32 -0700

      Hi Everyone,

      Busy weekend. While I have a lot of reservations about Gudwin's
      phraseology, I accept that the work was probably done by someone who
      is not a native speaker of English nor a student of English, and, as
      Len says, the models are [reasonably--my adjective] sound. So I am
      prepared to accept that model as an extension of the  semiotic
      modelling we have already accepted. (Okay, where's the earthquake,
      trumpets and assorted special effects?)

      I also wanted to add that while teasing out the point of divergence
      between emotional non-verbal and perhaps involuntary instances of
      haptic activity and clearly volitional, message (sign) emitting
      activity will need further attention, as will the discrimination
      between sensing and emitting haptic activity, I am pretty thoroughly
      satisfied with Len's element listing in the straw man schema.

      Just so you know, this is the first step I've ever taken down the
      road to endorsing both a model of perception and codification for how
      intelligence can identified and how knowledge can be represented, and
      I'm not especially happy about it. Locke, Kant, Berkeley,
      Wittgenstein, Korzybski, and Kierkegaard notwithstanding, I will keep
      my reservations.

Rex Brooks
Starbourne Communications Design
1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA 94702 *510-849-2309
http://www.starbourne.com * rexb@starbourne.com

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