Re: [humanmarkup] Re: [humanmarkup-comment] HMU.newmedia: CREATED

[Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga <rkthunga@humanmarkup.org>]

(Our "unanimous" agreements till now have kinda made me assume that there
would be no problem making informal decisions like this, assuming they would
be ratified.  However, you're right Rex, we really should make sure we are
clear that this is only a proposed decision.)

Although it is important to make sure we make the right perceptions, for
obvious reasons, it is fundamental for the project to match "who we are" and
how we can best contribute.  In a sense, I wouldn't have made this
suggestion if I hadn't known about Joe's own expertise and
profession--writing.  He would be able to inculcate far more of his
expertise and ideas into organizing such a subcommittee.  Further, the
applications are obvious -- marked up text to convey human information
through colors, fonts, styles.  Doesn't take long to get real, tangible,
solid fruit serving as an exemplar for future efforts.

This is why I started off with the new example (which, to clarify, is
*completely independent of the proposed subcommittee* as it stands.)

Well, that's my take...I won't be speaking for Joe however--Joe:  please do
clarify what you think.

Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starbourne.com>
To: "Joseph Norris" <jwnorris@humanmarkup.org>; "OASIS TC MAIN"
<humanmarkup@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [humanmarkup] Re: [humanmarkup-comment] HMU.newmedia: CREATED


> This ought to be an agenda item at our next meeting, or else you guys
> ought to make a formal motion to make this change then open the floor
> for debate. This isn't meant as a slap, but just a call for regular
> business-like discipline in TC affairs, okay?
>
> So, taking the tack that the floor is open on this soon-to-be-formal
> motion to change the nature of the HumanML_Write Subcommittee, I
> would like to say that I think these should be separated.
> HumanML_Write and Report are based on existent forms of writing and
> reporting, and would gain us much need credibility as a pragmatic,
> results-oriented group as opposed to a pie-in-the-sky unrealistically
> idealistic bunch of dreamers.
>
> This is not to say that I hold those views, just that we have had
> ample proof of that perception of us and, especially in the midst of
> a tech economic slow down, too-often termed a dot-com  meltdown in
> the mainstream media, referring to one of our subcommittees, however
> accurately it may actually be, as "new media" will likely reinforce
> that negative perception of us.
>
> Now, having said that, I happen to agree that this makes sense, and I
> really hate to make the argument that we need to cave in to popular
> perceptions that happen to be outright wrong, I think this is a time
> to be careful of the next set of perceptions we engender of our
> committee and our work.
>
> So, even though a formal motion has not been made, I am going to move
> that we divide the question into 1: ought we to expand the charter of
> the HumanML_Write Subcommittee and/or 2: ought we form a new
> Subcommittee for "Innovative Media" as opposed to "New Media" to
> develop proposals for adapting Human Markup Language to new forms of
> media?
>
> My argument is that HumanML_Write exists and can easily be conducted
> as an on-going effort, while a new media effort requires a change of
> focus detracting from the important work of developing a showcase
> application that is in essence a sample implementation of the
> specification we are building.
>
> Secondarily, I have a great interest in the development of an
> off-shoot of HumanML_Write, called HumanML_Report based on existing
> forms of reports which can be readily adapted as part of the sample
> implementation of the Human Markup Language Specification, and which
> is readily useable by our society at large almost immediately and can
> show demonstrable benefits which can be change the perception of our
> work from unrealistically idealistic to fundamentally pragmatic and
> down-to-Earth. And, most importantly of all: Easy to Understand.
>
> Ciao,
> Rex
>
>
>
> At 10:53 PM -0500 11/4/01, Joseph Norris wrote:
> >Dear Ranjeeth and everyone,
> >
> >That is a great idea. I hope with such a move we can expand our outreach
to
> >writers and other non-computer scientist researchers that would be
> >interested in contributing to HM development.
> >
> >HumanML_Write, and a host of other possible HM applications, will surely
> >appeal to many creative groups of researchers.
> >
> >I will develop an outline for incorporating the new goals, interests, and
> >research areas within the subcommittee. I am not sure as to what name
would
> >encompass both roles well, so I will mull on one. Any ideas?
> >
> >Cordially,
> >
> >Joe Norris
> >jwnorris@mindspring.com
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga" <rkthunga@humanmarkup.org>
> >To: "OASIS TC MAIN" <humanmarkup@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 2:05 PM
> >Subject: [humanmarkup] Re: [humanmarkup-comment] HMU.newmedia: CREATED
> >
> >
> >>  Joe,
> >>
> >>  I wanted to suggest expand the scope of your subcommitte from
> >"HumanML_Write
> >>  Subcommittee" to be "Writing Subcommittee" (or something appropritely
> >>  named).
> >>
> >>  This would still include HumanML_Write, but would have a broader set
of
> >>  goals including many of the topics you mentioned in your last post on
the
> >>  comments board.  Normally, I wouldn't recommend expanding the scope of
a
> >>  project when the milestones, as they stand, have not yet developed.
> >  > However, I suggest this because it allows us to tap into so much more
> >>  potential, and allows your expertise to be most effectively conveyed..
> >>
> >>  Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga
> >>
> >>
> >>  ----- Original Message -----
> >>  From: "Rob Nixon" <rnixon@qdyn.com>
> >>  To: "Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga" <rkthunga@humanmarkup.org>
> >>  Cc: "Joseph Norris" <jwnorris@humanmarkup.org>; "OASIS Comment"
> >>  <humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >>  Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 12:02 PM
> >>  Subject: Re: [humanmarkup-comment] HMU.newmedia: CREATED
> >>
> >>
> >>  > Ranjeeth, Joe,
> >>  >
> >>  > Regarding emotions, we should closely examine the work of people
like
> >Nico
> >>  H.
> >>  > Frijda.
> >>  >
> >>  > He has written a very interesting book called "The Emotions":
Studies in
> >>  Emotion
> >>  > & Social Interaction.
> >>  >
> >>  > I've read it a number of times and believe that it would form a good
> >>  reference
> >>  > for our work on emotions in regards to HumanML.  There are many
other
> >>  sources as
> >>  > well.  Are either of you familiar with Frijda's work?
> >>  >
> >>  > Rob
> >>  >
> >>  > Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga wrote:
> >>  >
> >>  > > Thanks Joe for your interest.  Certainly there are a variety of
> >>  applications
> >>  > > in the creative domain for HumanML.
> >>  > >
> >>  > > It would be very much appreciated if you could do the following
Joe:
> >>  > > 1) Write a short story, filled with both *tacit* and *explicit*
human
> >>  > > emotion and expression -- 2 pages or so is fine.
> >>  > > 2) Describe an *authoritative* reference *enumerating* the human
> >kinesic
> >>  > > expressions and emotions which you want to use.  If not, then we
can
> >>  simply
> >>  > > use the enumerations described in the HM.frameworks document for
now.
> >>  > >
> >>  > > After that, we can then develop the HumanML - XML Schema modules
for
> >>  > > emotions and kinesics to help build this particular example.
> >>  > >
> >>  > > I know you're kinda busy with a lot of things...if don't get to
it,
> >I'll
> >>  try
> >>  > > to drum up a short story from somewhere in the next couple of
days.
> >>  > > However, your writing background would be very useful to have
direct
> >>  input
> >>  > > from.
> >>  > >
> >>  > > Take care,
> >>  > >
> >>  > > Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga
> >>  > >
> >>  > > ----- Original Message -----
> >>  > > From: "Joseph Norris" <jwnorris@humanmarkup.org>
> >>  > > To: "Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga" <rkthunga@humanmarkup.org>; "OASIS
> >Comment"
> >>  > > <humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >>  > > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 7:47 AM
> >>  > > Subject: Re: [humanmarkup-comment] HMU.newmedia: CREATED
> >>  > >
> >>  > > > Dear Ranjeeth,
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > Thank you for mentioning HM applications for writers. As
discussed
> >in
> >>  > > Phase
> >>  > > > 0, new types of writing technologies are well suited towards HM
> >>  > > > enhancements. The possibilities are legion - from electronic
novels
> >>  > > (called
> >>  > > > "e-pics" by literary commentators) to the simple tagging of
scripts
> >>  and
> >>  > > > screenplays.
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > On a very basic level, for example, a playwright could encode
his or
> >>  her
> >>  > > > stage directions, settings, and instructions to actors. Scripts
for
> >>  > > > electronic games or Ebooks could be tagged with HM information
that
> >>  can be
> >>  > > > feed into a 3D interactive world where avatar actors can respond
in
> >>  ways
> >>  > > > encoded by the author. Electronic storytelling can aid in
education
> >>  and
> >>  > > > entertainment.
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > I do really enjoy talking about the practical real-world
> >applications
> >>  of
> >>  > > > HumanMarkup.
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > Writing and other creative endeavors will never be the same
after
> >>  > > > HumanMarkup changes the computer from a glorified typewriter and
the
> >>  > > > internet from a mere display-case into to something
revolutionary,
> >>  > > > interactive, and real.
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > Cordially,
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > Joe Norris
> >>  > > > jwnorris@humanmarkup.org
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >>  > > > From: "Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga" <rkthunga@humanmarkup.org>
> >>  > > > To: "OASIS Comment" <humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >>  > > > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 1:14 AM
> >>  > > > Subject: [humanmarkup-comment] HMU.newmedia: CREATED
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > > Here is a simple example I bring up to start engaging the
> >HumanML -
> >>  XML
> >>  > > > > Schema.
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > It isn't the most pragmatic example in light of recent events,
but
> >I
> >>  > > > wanted
> >>  > > > > to start because it is the most straightforward example I have
> >>  > > envisioned
> >>  > > > > HumanML to be applied for.   It's probably the best example to
get
> >>  > > juices
> >>  > > > > flowing.  My colleage Mei created a similar example, using
ad-hoc
> >>  > > HumanML
> >>  > > > > tags, a few months ago.  However, we could expand this to
create a
> >>  full
> >>  > > > > fledged example:
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > >
> >>  > >
> >>
>
>http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/humanmarkup/documents/HMU.newmedia.txt
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > HMU.newmedia
> >>  > > > > last updated:  4 November 2001
> >>  > > > > (example describing how we could use HumanML to convey
emotions in
> >>  New
> >>  > > > Media
> >>  > > > > writing)
> >>  > > > > --------------------
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > PROBLEM:
> >>  > > > > -----
> >>  > > > > I am a writer.  I write stories for a living.  I love my
> >profession,
> >>  and
> >>  > > I
> >>  > > > > am glad I am able to convey my message and perspectives
through
> >the
> >>  > > > > experiences of the characters in my story.  Unfortunately,
> >however,
> >>  I
> >>  > > feel
> >>  > > > > very limited in my ability to express myself, due to the
> >limitations
> >>  of
> >>  > > > > black and white text.
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > The World Wide Web has now allowed for much greater
possibilites
> >of
> >>  > > > > expression, mixing sound, graphics, colors, and music in so
many
> >>  ways.
> >>  > > > Now,
> >>  > > > > I can use various colors, fonts, and styles to express my
emotions
> >>  and
> >>  > > > > expressions much more strikingly and effectively.  However,
*how*
> >>  should
> >>  > > > I,
> >>  > > > > or could I, do this?
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > PROPOSED SOLUTION:
> >>  > > > > -----
> >>  > > > > Use Human Markup Language to embed emotions and expressions
(i.e.
> >>  > > > kinesics)
> >>  > > > > within the text of the message.  Then, create a legend of
sorts at
> >>  the
> >>  > > > > bottom of the screen, which conveyes what this means.  Based
on
> >>  style
> >>  > > > > guidelines, new media text could represent far greater pallete
of
> >>  > > > > presentation possibilities of textual information.
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > This would call for the use of "HumanML - XML Schema" and
> >>   "HumanML -
> >>  > > > Style
> >>  > > > > Guidelines"
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > Feel free to take it from here...
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > --------------------------
> >>  > > > > Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > >
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>
> --
> Rex Brooks
> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA, 94702 USA, Earth
> W3Address: http://www.starbourne.com
> Email: rexb@starbourne.com
> Tel: 510-849-2309
> Fax: By Request
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