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Subject: Re: [imi] SAML 2 profile questions


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I can't comment on Microsoft's shipping implementation working,  only  
that I believe they intended to support HoK to a RP/STS.

Mike M. can may be able to enlighten us on the what IBM has for this.

I agree that it would take some bending of definitions to convince  
some folks that it is HoK as defined in LoA 4.

I think that this should be a separate work item from the SAML 2  
profile.

I think we need to add a way to have one time keys, or something like  
that to improve the security on non-auditing cards.

Perhaps a restful service on the RP that generates a WS-Security  
policy like doc that the selector can retrieve.  That way you could  
have the one time key in that.

We also need a much more credible story on HoK (or equivalent) all the  
way to the RP web site.

I don't think these issues are directly related to the SAML 2.0 profile.

John B.


On 2009-10-15, at 1:07 AM, Scott Cantor wrote:

> John Bradley wrote:
>> HoK requires a RP/STS or some special undocumented undefined  
>> browser magic.
>
> True HoK means it's HoK all the way to the web site, so the RP/STS  
> thing doesn't count for my purposes. So the first question to answer  
> is whether that's strictly legal or not, regardless of whether  
> Cardspace itself happens to support it. If it is, then I'll stop  
> criticizing IMI on this basis. But none of this really pertains to  
> this profile, it's a separate issue.
>
>> Has anyone ever looked at doing one time audiance restriction?
>
> Do you mean one time keys? I certainly have.
>
>> If the RP made up a self signed certificate per transaction or  
>> symmetric  signing key.
>> This is venturing beyond the SAML 2.0 profile.  But some of these  
>> issues need a broader view.
>
> It's my assumption that with something like Infocard, you would  
> quite likely look at using one-time or at least frequently recycled  
> keys, and could support HoK by authenticating in the usual fashions  
> to the IdP but also sign the RST with a key so that it can bind that  
> key to the token on the way out without knowing ahead of time that  
> it's your key. This isn't preventative of MitM attacks if the  
> authentication step itself isn't via certificate, of course, but  
> it's still an improvement for the RP half.
>
> -- Scott


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