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Subject: RE: [kmip] Length of meetings

As an example, the WebEx system I use allows participants to come and go; you can log into the meeting anytime it is running. However, it is a bit difficult for the secretary to watch the list as people come and go. I think the best policy is that if you arrive late and want to be counted toward the attendance, you need to announce yourself to the secretary.



Walt Hubis
Software Architect
Engenio Storage Group

LSI Corporation
5400 Airport Blvd Ste 100
Boulder, CO 80301 USA
Phone: (303) 381-4332
Mobile: (303) 641-8528
-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Tomhave [mailto:tomhave@secureconsulting.net] 
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 4:04 PM
To: kmip@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [kmip] Length of meetings

Every 2 weeks would be more conducive to 7-day electronic ballots.

I'm not sold on requiring web access to take attendance: some of us are
joining during commute time and may not have web access immediately
available. If the mtg is 2 hours in length, do you leave the login window
open the entire time to record attendance?



On Thu, May 7, 2009 4:18 pm, Rod Wideman wrote:
> I would agree, Matt.  My preference would be 2-hours every two weeks,
> which would provide ample time in between meetings to review material.
> An example flow that has worked well in other standards groups is:
> 1     Opening remarks/roll call
> 2     Approval of the Agenda
> 3     Approval of previous meeting minutes
> 4     Review of action items:
> *         status of each item is either a carryover or closed;
> *         if an action item involves creating a proposal, then the
> action item is closed upon delivery of the first draft of the proposal,
> since it then first becomes a new business item, followed by becoming an
> old business item if it is not successfully approved the first time
> (i.e, it is carried as an agenda item instead of an action item; action
> items track things to do, agenda items track discussions/proposals to
> consider/vote on).
> 5     Old Business
> 5.1   (old business item 1)
> 5.2   (old business item 2)
> 5.3   (etc)
> 6     New Business
> 6.1   (new business item 1)
> 6.2   (new business item 2)
> 6.3   (etc)
> 7     Next Meeting Requirements (optional)
> 8     Review New Action Items
> 9     Adjournment
> It is also very helpful if proposals against a standard are numbered and
> include a revision number (e.g., v0, v1, etc), so the agenda can
> accurately reflect what is being reviewed.  It doesn't appear that
> OASIS/KMIP has a document numbering tool, so I'm not sure how proposals
> can be sequenced other than by name and revision as posted.
> As an example, your action item for creating an alignment proposal would
> be closed now, and we'd have an agenda item to review your actual
> proposal against the standard.  It would be helpful if there was just
> one proposal (e.g., either the 32-bit or the 64-bit or something) to
> consider and discuss.  Based on the discussion, you may receive feedback
> to revise and post (and remain an agenda item) until a clear consensus
> is reached to warrant a motion for incorporation into the standard.
> Given the large group, someone could decide to move on a revision that
> seemed acceptable enough to pass a vote (whether on the call or
> electronic doesn't matter so much).  There may not be unanimous support
> for every proposal.
> There can be agenda items that seek guidance on a direction to pursue in
> drafting an actual proposal, which could result in "group" action items
> to provide input to the requestor (e.g., 32-bit vs. 64-bit, or use of
> application specific identifiers).  But usually agenda items end up
> being draft changes to the standard to consider (e.g., new sections,
> edits, etc).
> Just some thoughts (since you asked).
> Rod Wideman
> Quantum
> ________________________________
> From: Matthew.Ball@Sun.COM [mailto:Matthew.Ball@Sun.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 2:18 PM
> To: kmip@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [kmip] Length of meetings
> Hi Folks,
> I think scheduling 2 hours is also a good idea.  As the group gets
> larger, it becomes necessary to extend the meeting length just because
> the procedural portions (taking attendance, roll call votes, etc) also
> get longer.  Plus the work load usually increases.
> I'm unhappy that we only got through one item today, and doubly so that
> it was partly my fault.  The group is still pretty new, and I think
> we're still trying to find the efficiency point.  Early in the alignment
> discussion, someone suggested that we immediately start an electronic
> ballot and get the issue over with.  In retrospect, that would have been
> more expedient, although I think we had some useful dialog on the
> pros/cons of 32-bit vs 64-bit.
> I dislike meetings that go down a rat hole as much as the rest of you,
> and hope that we can learn (possibly through some trial-and-error) the
> processes that keep the meetings efficient.  Here are some of my
> thoughts on how we can keep the meetings lean-and-mean:
> 1.	Post agendas and (mostly) stick to them
> 2.	Streamline the taking of attendance:  I'm hoping that we can
> find a fast way to use WebEx to create the initial attendee list and
> avoid phone roll calls.  Ideally, we could use a Kavi tool to take
> attendance automatically (does OASIS support this?).
> 3.	During review of action items, only discuss status of the action
> items, not the item itself.  Otherwise, you may never get status updates
> on the other action items, or get Liaison reports and such... :)
> 4.	Adopt a policy of requiring all proposals to go to a 7-day
> electronic ballot before adoption by the committee and inclusion into
> the draft.  I learned this while fumbling through about 3 different
> revisions of the main motion in today's meeting.  This was made clear
> when a whole bunch of new objections were raised when the motion was
> changed from "requiring 64-bit alignment of the value field" to "adopt
> the 64-bit proposal".  I'm assuming that most of the objections were
> because the members did not have ample time to review the proposal.  By
> doing a 7-day electronic ballot, this provides time for a review.
> Thoughts?  It always takes a little bit of time to figure out the group
> dynamic, but I think that after we get the mechanics down to a
> well-oiled machine we'll be able to make progress very quickly.
> Cheers,
> -Matt
> Marcus Streets wrote:
> 	I believe it is clear that we do not achieve sufficient progress
> in a
> 	one hour meeting.
> 	Therefore, I propose we increase the meeting to two hours each
> week.
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Benjamin Tomhave, MS, CISSP
Blog: http://www.secureconsulting.net/
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