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Subject: RE:Some questions about possible alternative markup

Dear Fabio,

Many thanks for your answer

Regarding the use of <ol> and <ul>, you say that it is similar to the <i> and <b>.

For me there is an important difference : <ul> and <ol> is used to mark structure.  it is not simple an inline element.  
We can easily convert a <i> into a <span> or something like this, it is only a shortcut.  
But <ol> and <ul> introduce a break in the Akoma Ntoso structure and the conversion is not garanteed because this structure is an exception to the Akoma Ntoso model. 
And I don't see any advantage to use it (taking into account that a <foreign> element exists).

Kind regards


PS. As you suggest, I share this discussion with the list

Véronique Parisse
AUBAY Luxembourg
Orco House
38, Parc d’activités - L-8308 Capellen
Standard : +352 2992501
Fax : +352 299251

De : Fabio Vitali [fabio@cs.unibo.it]
Envoyé : mercredi 18 décembre 2013 17:44
À : PARISSE, Véronique
Cc : monica.palmirani@unibo.it
Objet : Re: Some questions about possible alternative markup

Dear Veronique,

> what is the interest to mark as a <ol> or <ul> ?

the same as in marking something as <i> instead of <span class="emphasis">: laziness and alignment with HTML. I will not cut my wrists if we decide to remove them, but they are frankly as harmless as <i> and <b>.

> Why, inside a legal text, allow the use of <list> and  <blockList> ?

They belong to two different and separate patterns. These are the MOST IMPORTANT propriety of any element in Akoma Ntoso: mixing up patterns is the worst possible choice one can make.

A <blockList> is like a <p> but preceded by a bullet. A <list> is like a <tome> or a <section>, but called <list>. If the bullet is inside a hierarchy, then it cannot have direct content, but the hierarchy can continue; if the bullet is not inside a hierarchy, then its items can have direct content, but no further hierarchy is allowed.

Both are needed inside a legal text. The issue of which to choose is a matter of personal sensibility.

> Is there any interest to standardise the currentId composition because the currentId is depending of a technical choice ?

Yes! Not standardizing means allowing any choice and forcing lookup in all cases. Standardizing means providing a reasonable choice that will probably work without lookup in most cases. By NON standardizing, you are sure that your guesswork will not work. With the standardization, you will be probably right most of the times. Good enough for me, I would say.

> More general question : two models together inside a legal text : where to start the second one ?

Again: it is a matter of personal sensibility. Blocks exist in  all types of texts, hierarchies only in hierarchical documents (e.g., bills and acts). Therefore blockList is more important than list because it has a wider appeal. Hierarchical <list>s, on the other hand, exist because in some special cases you have an element of the hierarchy that has no special name, it is just a list. It is a minor, specialized choice.

From my point of view, <list> should be used whenever you are sure that the element you are dealing with belongs to a hierarchy (e.g., when further sub-hierarchies exist, or when it is clear that it has the same role and purpose as tome, book, section, paragraph, article, etc.). You should use blockList anywhere else.




P.S. Can we share this discussion with the list?

Il giorno 18/dic/2013, alle ore 15:31, PARISSE, Véronique <V.PARISSE@aubay.lu> ha scritto:

> Hello Monica and Fabio,
> Here is a small document explaining with some examples, the questions I have regarding the variants in the markup and their impact on the definition of the identifiers.
> The origin of this comes from the availability of two different markup for the list inside the body of a bill or an act but the problem can be generalised,
> I will be very happy to know your point of view.
> Kind regards
> Véronique Parisse
> AUBAY Luxembourg
> Orco House
> 38, Parc d’activités - L-8308 Capellen
> Standard : +352 2992501
> Fax : +352 299251
> www.aubay.com
> <structure variant in akoma ntoso.docx>


Fabio Vitali                            Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly,
Dept. of Computer Science        Man got to sit and wonder "Why, why, why?'
Univ. of Bologna  ITALY               Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land,
phone:  +39 051 2094872              Man got to tell himself he understand.
e-mail: fabio@cs.unibo.it         Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007), "Cat's cradle"

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