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Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] Tuesday conf call
- From: "Scott Came" <scott@justiceintegration.com>
- To: "Poindexter, Gary" <gary.poindexter@bearingpoint.com>
- Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:20:11 -0800 (PST)
Thanks for your comments, Gary.
I raised the example of the IJ
TC's work to illustrate a point, which was that sometimes a TC will be
developing workproduct that requires usage of tools that OASIS does not
provide. For example, OASIS does not provide tool support for building
GJXDM-conformant subset schemas. So, the question I'd ask is...how is it
an "abuse" of anything to use the GTRI subset tool when
developing TC workproduct, if part of that workproduct is a subset
schema? Are TCs supposed to avoid doing any work that requires tools not
provided by OASIS? That seems absurd.
Also, regarding your
other comment about TC participation, and for the record (since you raised
it)... Please know that if I were ever in attendance at an OASIS TC
meeting and realized that members were being excluded or that non-members
were being included in a way that violates the TC Guidelines, I would
raise an objection to same. In fact, I have done so in the past. I trust
your mention of this was not a suggestion that I might support the
exclusion of members from TC meetings.
>
> I have
not been active lately in this TC, but I have been selectively
>
active in the integrated justice TC. The pattern of alleged abuse goes
> beyond just court filing. The IJ TC had meetings where members
were
> excluded and non-members were included. Scott participated
in these
> meetings. The work products were published, but this
does not change the
> fact that the rules of OASIS are regularly
violated or ignored.
>
> I hope that the court filing TC
can set a good example for the other TCs
> and get back to abiding
by the letter of the rules of OASIS and not try to
> interpret the
"spirit" of these rules.
>
> gary
>
>
> Gary Poindexter | BearingPoint | Manager, SLED |
Minneapolis, MN
> Phone 612-305-5424 | Mobile 651-245-5958 | Fax
612-305-5100
> gary.poindexter@bearingpoint.com |
www.bearingpoint.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Came [mailto:scott@justiceintegration.com]
>
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 5:05 PM
> To:
TJSmith@ITDecision.com
> Cc:
legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE:
[legalxml-courtfiling] Tuesday conf call
>
>
>
Unfortunately I will not be able to attend the call tomorrow, but I did
> want to share my point of view on this...
>
> Most
of our subcommittee discussions, as best I can recall, have occurred
> either in face-to-face meetings of the subcommittee, or
teleconferences.
> It's not clear if that kind of interaction is
allowed, though it seems
> silly to form a subcommittee and then
not allow it to meet except via the
> OASIS website. I can't
imagine that's what the rule intends.
>
> As far as
workproduct, we have maintained a separate website for our notes
>
and work-in-progress, with the intent always to assemble those notes
into
> a formal document representing Blue. We did this, not to
circumvent the
> OASIS rules, but to work in an environment that
was naturally conducive to
> the interlinking of information
inherent in our domain. The nature of our
> work is really
building a requirements model, not authoring a document.
> In my
experience and that of others, doing requirements modeling in a
>
document-oriented format (e.g., Word) is quite difficult; however, it's
> quite easy and natural in html. Had OASIS provided a medium in
which we
> could do our modeling easily in html, we absolutely
would have used it.
>
> Other technical committees have
run into similar issues when building
> models (versus authoring
documents.) UML modeling for instance is pretty
> much impossible
to do using only OASIS-provided tools or the OASIS
> website. On
the Integrated Justice TC, we used the GTRI subset schema
>
generation tool to build our schemas, which again would have been
> impossible to do using only OASIS-provided tools. In these
situations, my
> understanding is that the typical approach is to
perform the modeling in
> tools outside the OASIS environment, and
then publish the models on a
> periodic basis to the OASIS site
for TC and/or public review.
>
> As Shane indicated
earlier, it was our intent (as discussed at the
> September
face-to-face) to post a PDF-version of our model to the OASIS
>
site any time major changes occurred. Our failure to do so was a
simple
> oversight that can be corrected. To wit...
>
> I would like to ask if it would be satisfactory to publish our work
to the
> OASIS site as a collection of html documents, zipped
together, any time
> the model changes. As for file format, there
certainly are other TCs that
> publish their material as html
(versus word or pdf). As for process, this
> really seems no
different than TC work in which a member maintains a copy
> of a
Word document locally, edits it, and then posts it to the OASIS site.
>
> This proposal certainly seems to satisfy the spirit of
the OASIS rules
> (the "activities would be publicly and
permanently available") and is also
> consistent with
widespread OASIS TCs' practice of members authoring
> content
outside the OASIS site (e.g., in Word on their workstation) as
>
long as that content is published to the OASIS site as the
"official"
> home.
>
> I respectfully
ask that the TC not require this information to be
>
"flattened" into a Word document. That would destroy most of
the
> structure inherent in the model.
>
> (All
of the foregoing is my personal view and opinion, and does not
>
necessarily represent the views and opinions of the requirements
>
subcommittee or any of its members.)
>
> Thanks.
> --Scott
>
>> Shane, I think the problem is a
little broader than you can personally
>> take
>>
credit for. :-)
>>
>> As I read the OASIS
guidelines, all of the SC's "technical discussions"
>> must
>> be on OASIS lists, and all of it's work
products in OASIS repositories.
>>
>> TJS
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
Shane.Durham@lexisnexis.com [mailto:Shane.Durham@lexisnexis.com]
>> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 11:34 AM
>> To:
TJSmith@ITDecision.com
>> Cc:
legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: RE:
[legalxml-courtfiling] Tuesday conf call
>>
>>
>> >> has been operating in violation of OASIS TC
guidelines
>> This is entirely my fault.
>>
>> I volunteered, and was assigned the task of periodically
posting the
>> requirements sub-group's work-products to the
OASIS site (in the form of
>> a
>> consolidated
PDF).
>>
>> To date, I have not done so.
>> Not for any reason other than procrastination and
prioritization.
>>
>> I'll try to do that be the end
of today.
>> - Shane
>>
>>
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>> From: T J Smith
[mailto:TJSmith@ITDecision.com]
>> Sent: Monday, November 08,
2004 11:29 AM
>> To: Electronic Court Filing Technical
Committeee
>> Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] Tuesday conf
call
>>
>>
>> John and Tom,
>>
>> I'd like you to add the issue I raised last
conference call to this
>> agenda, that being that the
Requirements Subcommittee has been operating
>> in
>> violation of OASIS TC guidelines with respect to use of
non-OASIS
>> facilities
>> (at
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/guidelines.php).
>>
Because OASIS technical activities must be permanently and publicly
>> visible, TCs must conduct their technical discussions only on
the
>> OASIS-provided lists. Moving any part of the TC's
discussion to any
>> other
>> facility (e.g. a
member company's server, a TC member's personal server,
>>
Yahoo groups, etc.) is not permitted.
>>
>> The TC
must also use the OASIS-provided public and private web pages.
>> The use of a non-OASIS web page (e.g. at a dot-org on a member
company's
>> server or a TC member's personal server, etc.) is
not permitted.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> TJS
>> Tom Smith
>> AVI/ITDecision
>> tjsmith@itdecision.com
>> 650.591.1795 (Ofc)
>> 650.346.7689 (Mobile)
>> 650.591.1425 (Fax)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
John Greacen [mailto:john@greacen.net]
>> Sent: Monday,
November 08, 2004 11:00 AM
>> To: Electronic Court Filing
Technical Committeee
>> Subject: [legalxml-courtfiling] Tuesday
conf call
>>
>>
>> Our next
teleconference is tomorrow. Here are the details for the
>>
call:
>>
>>
>>
>> Leader's
Name: John Greacen
>>
>> Day/Date: Tuesday, November
9, 2004
>>
>> Time of call: 1:00 to 2:00 pm Eastern
time
>>
>> Conference Dial-in: 512-225-3050
>>
>> Conference Guest Code: 84759#
>>
>> Number of lines needed: Anticipated Total = 40
>>
>> Duration of the call: 1 Hour
>>
>>
Leader's Phone Number: 505-780-1450
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the tentative agenda:
>>
>>
>>
>> Status of consultant recruitment -
Jamie Clark
>>
>>
>>
>> Action
on charter revision - John Greacen
>>
>> (The KAVI
vote total was 16 to 1 in favor of the draft
>> circulated,
among 56 TC members and
>>
>> prospective members.
Members raised on the list the following issues
>> -
>> Should we remove
>>
>> "Court"
from our name to recognize electronic exchanges of legal
>>
documents that may not include a
>>
>> court? [No
support, several oppositions] Should we remove electronic
>>
service of process from our
>>
>> charter since it
is not within the scope of Court Filing Blue? [No
>> support,
several opposed but a
>>
>> request to maintain a
record of the issue for future standards
>> releases]. Is there
sufficient support
>>
>> to present the revised
charter to the OASIS Board?)
>>
>>
>>
>> Status of Requirements Subcommittee tasks - Tom Clarke
>>
>>
>>
>> The current status of
our requirements development, as reported
>> last month by the
subcommittee chair, is as follows:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. We have identified three components: filing
assembly, filing
>> review, court record. These replace the old
EFSP, EFM, CMS nomenclature.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. We have identified four interfaces: query, transaction,
>> event,
>> and policy. These more abstract titles
better align with the different
>> types of technical
transactions that need to occur between components.
>> Think of
this as being similar to the SOAP messaging scenarios, which
>>
are
>> also deliberately abstract.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. The technical, detailed or
component use cases (the names are
>> fairly interchangeable)
will be grouped by interface category.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4. Asynchronous transactions will not be viewed
as a
>> non-functionality requirement. Instead, we will pair
use cases on the
>> interacting components that together
complete the asynchronous
>> exchange.
>> We
>> still need to identify a use case descriptive mechanism for
identifying
>> these pairs.
>>
>>
>>
>> 5. Query interface use cases are all
synchronous.
>>
>>
>>
>> 6.
Private components will not be addressed by E Filing Blue.
>>
Shane Durham has developed a nomenclature document that includes an
>> explanation of "private."
>>
>>
>>
>> 7. The following outstanding tasks
and schedules are agreed to.
>> All tasks will be drafted by
November 5th and presented to the TC before
>> the
>> conference call on the 9th:
>>
>> - Shane
Durham will define draft e-service use cases.
>>
>>
- Scott Came will detail the draft policy interfaces. Good
>>
drafts will be available by the November
>> 19th.
>>
>> - Scott Came and Jim Cabral will resolve the
non-normative
>> guidance for migration from SOAP with
>> Attachments
>> to MTOM.
>>
>>
- Jim Cabral will describe the message types and key
>>
contents.
>>
>> - The group will review the ebMS
profile and its
>> non-functional
>> mapping done by
John Ruegg. This has
>> already
>> been posted.
>>
>> - Scott Came will revise all of the existing
detailed use
>> cases per the decisions above.
>>
>> - Shane Durham will revise the functional high-level use
>> cases
>> per the decisions above.
>>
>>
>>
>> Replacement of liaison to eGov -
John Greacen
>>
>> (John Ruegg offered to serve,
with the understanding that
>> he
>> would not
attend meetings in DC.
>>
>> Tom Carlson will
determine whether the National Center
>> would support his
serving, and attending
>>
>> meetings.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Status of Las Vegas
face-to-face planning (Thursday and half day
>> Friday,
>> December 16 and 17) - Robin Gibson
>>
>>
>>
>> Suggested cancellation of December
conference call in light of face to
>> face meeting two days
later - John Greacen
>>
>>
>>
>> Other items of interest to the members
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John M.
Greacen
>>
>> Greacen Associates, LLC
>>
>> HCR 78, Box 23
>>
>>
Regina, New Mexico 87046
>>
>> 505-289-2164
>>
>> 505-289-2163 (fax)
>>
>>
505-780-1450 (cell)
>>
>>
>>
> To
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> the OASIS TC), go to
>
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>
>
>
>
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