Discussion of subcommittee charters

["John Greacen" <john@greacen.net>]

I welcome the discussion and hope that the comments below resolve the
confusion expressed by some members concerning the roles and purposes of
the two subcommittees.  

I am not willing to restart the balloting process to include an
“abstain” option.  While it is important that everyone understand what
we are doing, this TC has wasted too much time on these sorts of
“process” debates in the past and the members have made it very clear to
me and Tom that they want to get on with the substantive discussions
involved in bringing CourtFiling Blue into existence.  I urge members
who remain unclear about the proposals to vote “no.”  

OASIS staff have already created the two new subcommittee lists, based
on the existence of majority votes in favor of both charters.  Members
can self-subscribe to the two new subcommittees, as follows:

         >> Go to TC members' page 
(http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/legalxml-courtfiling/index
.php).
         >> Go to relevant subcommittee's member page (listed and linked

at bottom of TC member page, under the caption "Subgroups").
         >> Use the "Join This Group" link at the top of the
subcommittee page.


As Don Bergeron just pointed out, under OASIS rules, we must have a
subcommittee in order to have a new list.  

The members present in Las Vegas discussed this at length, including the
option to hold the drafting discussions on the main TC list, and opted
to create a separate list for the detailed discussions of the Blue
specification and schemas, so that discussions would be focused and
definitive.  The members who participated by phone had no problem with
the recommendation concerning the chartering of these two subcommittees.


The TC’s intention is for the requirements subcommittee to be a small
group of interested, dedicated people finishing up the requirements
(although all TC members are eligible to join and participate in the
process) and for the Blue Drafting subcommittee to be a committee of the
whole – i.e., that every member of the TC will participate as a member
of the drafting subcommittee.


 

John M. Greacen
Greacen Associates, LLC
HCR 78, Box 23
Regina, New Mexico 87046
505-289-2164
505-289-2163 (fax)
505-780-1450 (cell)
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY)
> [mailto:Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 2:11 PM
> To: 'Jim Beard'; Electronic Court Filing Technical Committeee
> Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] "Must vote" for TC voting members
> 
> Under the rules you must have a subcommittee to have a mailing list on
the
> OASIS platform.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Don
> 
> Donald L. Bergeron
> Systems Designer
> LexisNexis
> donald.bergeron@lexisnexis.com
> O 937-865-1276
> H 937-748-2775
> M 937-672-7781
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Beard [mailto:beard@counterclaim.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:25 PM
> To: Electronic Court Filing Technical Committeee
> Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] "Must vote" for TC voting members
> 
> So if the point of the Blue Drafting Subcommittee is to have a formal
> mailing list for discussion of the work product of the Requirements
> Subcommittee, why not just make a new mailing list for it?  Why go
> through the hassle of having an entirely new subcommittee?  Also, why
> wouldn't the Requirements mailing list be appropriate for this
> discussion?
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Jan 5, 2005, at 12:27 PM, Scott Came wrote:
> 
> > Let me make an attempt at clarification...
> >
> > One reason for creating the Blue Drafting Subcommittee was to have a
> > separate, OASIS-sanctioned mailing list for formal discussion of the
> > artifacts being developed by the Requirements Subcommittee.  This is
> > opposed to general discussion of efiling and other TC business,
which
> > continues to take place on the main TC list.  That is, on the
drafting
> > list you post specific proposals for modifying the artifacts as they
> > develop.
> >
> > The idea, I believe, is to have the drafting subcommittee be a
> > committee of the whole.
> >
> > --Scott
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Beard <beard@counterclaim.com>
> > Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:29:37
> > To:Electronic Court Filing Technical Committeee
> > <legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] "Must vote" for TC voting
members
> >
> > Roger and all,
> >
> >
> > On Jan 5, 2005, at 11:35 AM, Winters, Roger wrote:
> >
> > <excerpt>
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger>The
> > "Blue Drafting" committee was defined to work with the products of
the
> > requirements group, the discussions from the face-to-face and
> > telephone meetings of the technical committee, and the discussions
> > that will take place on the "Blue Drafting" committee's own e-mail
> > group (to be formed once chartered), and begin (with our hired
> > consultant) to produce (draft) the "Blue" specification.
> > </bigger></bigger></color></fontfamily>
> >
> > </excerpt>
> >
> > So the "Blue Drafting" committee will consist of parties that are
> > developing based on the products of the Requirements committee?
That
> > makes sense, but doesn't seem to fall under the definition of "Blue
> > Drafting" that comes to mind for me.
> >
> >
> > You mention that the group will "begin to produce the 'Blue'
> > specification".  What format do you imagine the Specification to
take?
> > It seems to me that the Requirements subcommittee will be making
> > documentation and schemas.  To me, documentation and Schemas form a
> > specification.  That's why I am confused.  As I understand it the
> > requirements committee is making the specifications.  Also, all of
the
> > deliverables outlined in the "Blue Drafting" committee are
'reviews'.
> > There are no defined documents to be delivered.  So again, I'm
> > confused as to what the committee is supposed to do.
> >
> >
> > The first part of you response, which led me to believe that the
Blue
> > Drafting committee would be developing, using and providing feedback
> > on what the Requirements committee produces makes sense.  However if
> > that is the whole intent, I would suggest renaming it to the "Blue
> > Review" committee...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <excerpt><fontfamily><param>Tahoma</
> > param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</param><bigger><bigger>
> >  </bigger></bigger></color></fontfamily>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> >
param><bigger><bigger>Regards,</bigger></bigger></color></fontfamily>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger> </bigger></bigger></color></fontfamily>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger>Roger</bigger></bigger></color></fontfamily>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger> </bigger></bigger></color></fontfamily>
> >
> >
> >
<bold><fontfamily><param>Georgia</param><color><param>8080,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger>Roger
> > Winters</bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></
> > color></fontfamily></bold>
> >
> >
> > <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param>Programs
> > and Projects Manager</color></fontfamily></bold>
> >
> >
> > <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param>King
> > County</color></fontfamily></bold>
> >
> > <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param>Department
> > of Judicial Administration</color></fontfamily></bold>
> >
> >
> > <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param>516
> > Third Avenue, E-609 MS: KCC-JA-0609</color></fontfamily></bold>
> >
> >
> > <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param>Seattle,
> > Washington 98104</color></fontfamily></bold>
> >
> >
> >
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param>V:
> > (206) 296-7838 F: (206) 296-0906</color></fontfamily>
> >
> >
> > <fixed><fontfamily><param>Courier
> > New</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><x-tad-
> >
bigger>roger.winters@metrokc.gov</x-tad-bigger></color></fontfamily></
> > fixed>
> >
> >
> >
<bold><fontfamily><param>Georgia</param><color><param>8080,0000,8080</
> > param><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger></color></fontfamily></bold>
> >
> >
> >
<bold><fontfamily><param>Georgia</param><color><param>8080,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger>COMING
> >
SOON!</bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></color></
> > fontfamily></bold>
> >
> >
> > <<image.tiff><fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><x-tad-bigger>-----
> > Original
> > Message-----</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
> >
> > <bold><fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><x-tad-bigger>From:</x-tad-
> > bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><x-tad-
> > bigger>
> > Jim Beard
[mailto:beard@counterclaim.com]</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><x-tad-bigger>
> >
</x-tad-bigger><bold><x-tad-bigger>Sent:</x-tad-bigger></bold><x-tad-
> > bigger>
> > Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:59 AM</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
> >
> > <bold><fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><x-tad-bigger>To:</x-tad-
> > bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><x-tad-
> > bigger>
> > Electronic Court  Filing Technical
> > Committeee</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
> >
> >
<bold><fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><x-tad-bigger>Subject:</x-tad-
> > bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Tahoma</param><x-tad-
> > bigger>
> > Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] "Must vote" for TC voting
> > members</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>John and
> > Others,</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>        I
would
> > imagine you are correct that the holidays played a major roll in the
> > lack of voting. Having said that however, after reviewing the
attached
> > documents for the subcommittees I was left a little
> > confused.</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>        My
> > understanding is that the Requirements Subcommittee is responsible
for
> > developing use cases, a glossary, service descriptions of messaging
> > components, definitions of messaging profiles, and GJXDM compliant
> > schemas. While the Court Filing Blue Drafting subcommittee will
simply
> > review what the other subcommittee produces. Is this a correct
> > understanding of the situation? If so why is there a need for the
> > CFBlue subcommittee. Shouldn't the entire TC be reviewing what the
> > requirements subcommittee
> > produces?</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> >
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>Thanks,</x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>Jim</x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>On Jan 4,
2005,
> > at 11:01 AM, John Greacen
> > wrote:</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>The
subcommittee
> > charters failed to win approval in the voting that took place over
the
> > Christmas holidays.  Only 12 of our voting members voted, all in
> > support of the subcommittee
> > charters.</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>Tom Clarke and
I
> > have decided to disregard this result, attributing non response to
the
> > fact that the balloting took place during the holidays.  Therefore,
> > voting members will not lose their voting status because they failed
> > to vote on the
> > charters.</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>I have
reposted
> > ballots on these charters.  The proposed charters are
> > attached.</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>Any voting
> > member who does not vote on these charters will lose his or her
voting
> > member
status.</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>I remind you
> > that the TC decided during the Las Vegas face to face meeting to
> > pursue an aggressive timetable for completion of Court Filing Blue.
> > That timetable includes approval of these
> > charters. </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>Thank you for
> > your
> >
participation.</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger>John
> > M.
> > Greacen</bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></
> > color><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> > </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger>Greacen
> > Associates,
> > LLC</bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></
> > color><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> > </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger>HCR
> > 78, Box
> > 23</bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></
> > color><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> > </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger>Regina,
> > New Mexico
> > 87046</bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></
> > color><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> > </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger>505-289-2164</
> > bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></
> > color><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> > </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger>505-289-2163
> > (fax)</bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></
> > color><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> > </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,8080</
> > param><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger>505-780-1450
> > (cell)</bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></
> > color><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> > </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-
> > bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Times New
> > Roman</param><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger><bigger> </
> > bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></bigger></
> > fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> > </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger><<Court Filing
> > Blue Drafting Subcomm charter 2d draft.doc><<Requirements Subcomm
> > charter 2d draft.doc>To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be
> > removed from the roster of the OASIS TC), go to
> > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/legalxml-courtfiling/
> > members/leave_workgroup.php.</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></
> > excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> Jim
> > Beard</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> > counterclaim.com,
> > Inc</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> > http://www.counterclaim.com</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></
> > excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >
http://openefm.sourceforge.net</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></
> > excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger> (800)
> > 264-8145</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>
> >  </x-tad-bigger></bigger></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
> >
> >
> > </excerpt>Jim Beard
> >
> > counterclaim.com, Inc
> >
> > http://www.counterclaim.com
> >
> > http://openefm.sourceforge.net
> >
> > (800) 264-8145
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent wirelessly via BlackBerry from T-Mobile.
> >
> >
> Jim Beard
> counterclaim.com, Inc
> http://www.counterclaim.com
> http://openefm.sourceforge.net
> (800) 264-8145
> 
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