RE: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??

["David E. Ewan" <dewan@speakeasy.net>]

I'm not even sure it would qualify as a "notarized" document.  It's definitely a "witnessed" document, but due to lack of certificate, as you guys have pointed out, it's neither acknowledged nor is it a jurat. As Mark pointed out, this is scope creep.  I'd agree that it could be classified in the "other" category (rightly or wrongly) and let other aspects/applications decide what it is.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arshad Noor [mailto:arshad.noor@strongauth.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 02:38 PM
> To: Mark Ladd
> Cc: Marc L. Aronson; legalxml-enotary@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??
> 
> In that example, Mark, I had an element that described the type of
> notarization in the eNotarized document: Acknowledgment, Jurat or
> Other.
> 
> If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that we should
> let the MD example be called "Other" and let applications decide
> what it is?
> 
> Arshad
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Ladd" <mark.ladd@addison-one.com>
> To: "Arshad Noor" <arshad.noor@strongauth.com>
> Cc: "Marc L. Aronson" <maronson@notary.org>, legalxml-
> enotary@lists.oasis-open.org
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:43:16 AM (GMT-0800)
> America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RE: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??
> 
> I think this is covered by the scenario you called "eNotarized
> Document" in your PDF presentation.  IMO, I don't think we should chase
> the Maryland rabbit.  It represents "scope creep" to me and that is
> crippling to any project.
> 
> 
> Mark Ladd
> Addison/One, LLC
> 262-498-0850
> 
> mark.ladd@addison-one.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arshad Noor [mailto:arshad.noor@strongauth.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:46 AM
> To: Mark Ladd
> Cc: Marc L. Aronson; legalxml-enotary@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??
> 
> But, what type of document is this?
> 
> According to the MD Code, the Notary verifies the identity of the
> signer,
> witnesses the signature, signs and stamps the document, records it in
> their
> journal - BUT it is neither an Acknowledgment nor a Jurat.
> 
> This appears to be yet another type of use case for e-Notarized
> documents:
> 
> 1) Standard Acknowledgment/Jurat, being the first, which has all the
>    standard accoutrements (the identity verification, the Notary
> signature
>    and seal, the Journal entry, etc.) of an e-Notarized document;
> 
> 2) Declaration under penalty of perjury, being the second, which does
> not
>    have any or most of the standard accoutrements of a notarized
> document,
>    but is  legal in some/many states; and
> 
> 3) This new "document" supported in Maryland, which has all the
> standard
>    accoutrements of a notarized document, but is neither of the above
> two.
> 
> What is this third type of document to be called in the XSD?  Are there
> more types of documents like these that must be addressed by the
> schema?
> 
> Arshad
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Ladd" <mark.ladd@addison-one.com>
> To: "Marc L. Aronson" <maronson@notary.org>, legalxml-
> enotary@lists.oasis-open.org
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 11:30:35 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RE: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??
> 
> This scenario would be covered by Arshad’s “second option” for an
> electronic document that was not generated with the notary standard. I
> think we’re okay the way we are.
> 
> Mark Ladd
> Addison/One, LLC
> 262-498-0850
> mark.ladd@addison-one.com
> 
> 
> From: Marc L. Aronson [mailto: maronson@notary.org ]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 1:24 PM
> To: legalxml-enotary@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??
> 
> Folks:
> 
> Please see below.
> 
> I was thinking after the call about this.
> 
> Does this make a mess for Arshad?
> 
> There may be other states. Do you need more information?
> 
> Marc A.
> 
> “Is it possible that a ‘notarized document’ could contain a notary
> signature and perhaps commissioning information, but not contain an
> acknowledgment or form of jurat or the like? Isn’t there something like
> that in Maryland? I need chapter and verse if you have it.”
> 
> 
> 
> Md. STATE GOVERNMENT Code Ann. 18-113
> 
> 18-113. Procedure in absence of notarial certificate
> 
> (a) In general. -- If a document presented for notarization does not
> contain a notarial certificate reflecting the taking of an oath or
> acknowledgment, a notary may nevertheless witness the signing of the
> document in the notary's official capacity, in accordance with
> subsection (b) of this section.
> 
> (b) Witnessing requirements. -- A notary acting as a witness in the
> notary's official capacity under subsection (a) of this section shall:
> 
> (1) obtain satisfactory proof of the identity of the person signing the
> document;
> 
> (2) observe the signing of the document;
> 
> (3) date, sign, and seal or stamp the document; and
> 
> (4) record the act in the notary's fair register.
> 
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