Re: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??

[John L Jones <jjones@arionzoe.com>]

I vote for "other" as well, as long as there is an element for "Other Description."

One thing that I don't think is scope creep is a use case for a certified or attested copy of a document. That's a third type in addition to the acknowledgment/jurat NotarizationActTypes. It requires no additional data that I can think of off the top of my head, but does use less data. There is no venue or signer information associated with the act, but there is boilerplate language. In that respect it is a hybrid between the acknowledgment/jurat and notary signature only use cases because it does contain boiler plate

-------
John

David E. Ewan wrote:

I'm not even sure it would qualify as a "notarized" document.  It's definitely a "witnessed" document, but due to lack of certificate, as you guys have pointed out, it's neither acknowledged nor is it a jurat. As Mark pointed out, this is scope creep.  I'd agree that it could be classified in the "other" category (rightly or wrongly) and let other aspects/applications decide what it is.

David

  

-----Original Message-----
From: Arshad Noor [mailto:arshad.noor@strongauth.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 02:38 PM
To: Mark Ladd
Cc: Marc L. Aronson; legalxml-enotary@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??

In that example, Mark, I had an element that described the type of
notarization in the eNotarized document: Acknowledgment, Jurat or
Other.

If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that we should
let the MD example be called "Other" and let applications decide
what it is?

Arshad

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ladd" <mark.ladd@addison-one.com>
To: "Arshad Noor" <arshad.noor@strongauth.com>
Cc: "Marc L. Aronson" <maronson@notary.org>, legalxml-
enotary@lists.oasis-open.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:43:16 AM (GMT-0800)
America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??

I think this is covered by the scenario you called "eNotarized
Document" in your PDF presentation.  IMO, I don't think we should chase
the Maryland rabbit.  It represents "scope creep" to me and that is
crippling to any project.


Mark Ladd
Addison/One, LLC
262-498-0850

mark.ladd@addison-one.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Arshad Noor [mailto:arshad.noor@strongauth.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:46 AM
To: Mark Ladd
Cc: Marc L. Aronson; legalxml-enotary@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??

But, what type of document is this?

According to the MD Code, the Notary verifies the identity of the
signer,
witnesses the signature, signs and stamps the document, records it in
their
journal - BUT it is neither an Acknowledgment nor a Jurat.

This appears to be yet another type of use case for e-Notarized
documents:

1) Standard Acknowledgment/Jurat, being the first, which has all the
   standard accoutrements (the identity verification, the Notary
signature
   and seal, the Journal entry, etc.) of an e-Notarized document;

2) Declaration under penalty of perjury, being the second, which does
not
   have any or most of the standard accoutrements of a notarized
document,
   but is  legal in some/many states; and

3) This new "document" supported in Maryland, which has all the
standard
   accoutrements of a notarized document, but is neither of the above
two.

What is this third type of document to be called in the XSD?  Are there
more types of documents like these that must be addressed by the
schema?

Arshad

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ladd" <mark.ladd@addison-one.com>
To: "Marc L. Aronson" <maronson@notary.org>, legalxml-
enotary@lists.oasis-open.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 11:30:35 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??

This scenario would be covered by Arshad’s “second option” for an
electronic document that was not generated with the notary standard. I
think we’re okay the way we are.

Mark Ladd
Addison/One, LLC
262-498-0850
mark.ladd@addison-one.com


From: Marc L. Aronson [mailto: maronson@notary.org ]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 1:24 PM
To: legalxml-enotary@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [legalxml-enotary] Notarial certificate always required??

Folks:

Please see below.

I was thinking after the call about this.

Does this make a mess for Arshad?

There may be other states. Do you need more information?

Marc A.

“Is it possible that a ‘notarized document’ could contain a notary
signature and perhaps commissioning information, but not contain an
acknowledgment or form of jurat or the like? Isn’t there something like
that in Maryland? I need chapter and verse if you have it.”



Md. STATE GOVERNMENT Code Ann. 18-113

18-113. Procedure in absence of notarial certificate

(a) In general. -- If a document presented for notarization does not
contain a notarial certificate reflecting the taking of an oath or
acknowledgment, a notary may nevertheless witness the signing of the
document in the notary's official capacity, in accordance with
subsection (b) of this section.

(b) Witnessing requirements. -- A notary acting as a witness in the
notary's official capacity under subsection (a) of this section shall:

(1) obtain satisfactory proof of the identity of the person signing the
document;

(2) observe the signing of the document;

(3) date, sign, and seal or stamp the document; and

(4) record the act in the notary's fair register.

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