lexidma message

Subject: Modified: Regular monthly LEXIDMA TC meeting

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To: <lexidma@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 11:14:22 +0000 (UTC)

Submitter's message
added minutes for 19th October
-- Dr. David Filip

Event Title: Regular monthly LEXIDMA TC meeting

Date: Monday, 19 October 2020, 01:30pm to 03:00pm WEST
Location: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/lexidma/members/action_item.php?action_item_id=3939
Description

Find connection link within this action item

https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/lexidma/members/action_item.php?action_item_id=3939

This meeting counts towards voter eligibility.

Agenda

1. Administrative

roll call
appoint scribe
approve minutes from previous meeting
https://markmail.org/message/3o7mvduysamjobqz

2. Material

DMLex Working Draft format (office or Docbook?) https://github.com/oasis-tcs/lexidma
DMLex WD Technical discussion

Discuss Maichal's report on subsensing
https://markmail.org/thread/w4gipruqrhn4uhhg [repo]
https://markmail.org/thread/fz46xz362r5n2fer [mailing list discussion]

Continue discussion of design principles
- Review Michal's finding on the use of subentries and subsenses in ELEXIS data
  https://markmail.org/thread/wgzdw4234qtjrzof and hopefully Michal's full report
- Do we have consensue on the fused design principles? [as updated during the meeting on 21st Sept]
  https://github.com/oasis-tcs/lexidma/wiki/Fused-revised-design-principles
- See pending issues under "Pending considerations"
- See also "Business logic checks" here
  https://github.com/oasis-tcs/lexidma/wiki/Documenting-current-consensus-on-possible-technical-solutions
Continue discussion of data model diagrams [after sorting out design principles]
- Recet contributions:
  - Miloš, Ilan, and John discussiong "two level senses"
    https://markmail.org/thread/ysxlq3ih5r4q6b67
  - John and Michal discussing revised Ontolex diagaram
    https://markmail.org/thread/wmmarqw5ugekxvdo
- Initial positions
  - Miloš: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/66840/LEXIDMA_ER_version1.pd
  - John: https://github.com/oasis-tcs/lexidma/wiki/Data-Model-based-on-OntoLex-TEI-Lex0
LEXIDMA TC liaisons and appointement of reps
- TEI Lex-0
  open call for reps

3. Closing Admin

Recap of agreed actions
AOB
Adjourn [no later than 1500 WEST]

Minutes

LEXIDMA meeting 19 October 2020, 14:30-16:00 CEST

1. Administrative

roll call - Tomaz, Simon, Iztok, John, David, Milos, Michal, Ilan
appoint scribe - Ilan
approve minutes from previous meeting 21st September
https://markmail.org/message/3o7mvduysamjobqz
- approved.
Add to AOB – review GANTT

2. Material

Michal prepared report on subsensing in dictionaries
https://markmail.org/thread/fz46xz362r5n2fer [mailing list discussion]
- was uploaded by David to the repository for future reference
  https://markmail.org/thread/fz46xz362r5n2fer [mailing list discussion]
- serving as a proposal for remodeling
- has the benefit of flattening senses rather than hierarchical sub-senses
- interoperable by machines
- would not be losing any information available in the dictionaries studied
- John: DWDS example is odd – Michal agrees there should not be separate entries
- David: is relation-based subsensing recursion, to avoid having an element contain itself
- Michal: avoid illogical recursion by allowing subsensing
- David: could have two different entries, one having
- Ilan: when ready, expand with regard to nested entries and MWEs (as subsenses)
- Three main patterns: senses inside senses, the child sense is MWE, entry inside entry (incl homographs)
- take care of all of them by flattening
- David: should decide who is primary user – machine or human
- Miloš: homographs need not be indicated explicitly – no clear distinction of homonymy and polysemy – lexicographer may decide either way, the machine can deal with either
- Simon: possible to establish relation between the two
- Miloš: Can infer homographs from similar spelling
- Simon: changing the world of lexicography from book-based logic, so keep the possibility of labeling relations – can label two homonym entries as homonymic
- Michal: if we follow the same strategy, we become truly members of the digital era
Michal will write similar proposal including homographs/homonyms, nesting, MWEs
- David: we need to be language-agnostic in this sense
- MWE – making it relational
- Simon: underdefined, not typically headwords, should not be modelled as subsenses
- David: don’t agree, depends whether has compositional sense or not
- Simon: agglutinative language has other problem, as could have millions of headwords; we are talking about move from hierarchical book model – whatever one considers as headword, or as something that should be explained with some kind of lexicographic identity, it can be a headword; otherwise it is used as part of the sense
- David: we need a more comprehensive proposal, include examples and describe mechanics
- Michal confirms accepting to write wider proposal

3. Closing Admin AOB

Gantt chart – we were on track with administrative things, launched the TC by end of 2019
- Had pre-assumption that working draft of deliverable starts right away, but we needed design discussions to precede
- We are 8 months late with regard to the Gantt chart
- David: Will need a year for drafting the standard
- Simon suggests deadline to start public reviews before summer 2021
- Miloš agrees with Ilan that the discussion of the underlying principals was substantial and needed fairly long time but now we can speed up the process
Heads up for spec formatting decision next time
- David brings from backburner having to determine the formatting question – Oasis style or ISO style
  - David send the two variants to the mailing list
  - David will present option to discuss next time, summarize and put on agenda next time
  - Political thing – fasttrack in Oasis or longterming with ISO
  - Simon and David are editors, everyone can contribute

Adjourned 1500 WEST

Owner: Dr. David Filip
Group: OASIS Lexicographic Infrastructure Data Model and API (LEXIDMA) TC
Sharing: This event is shared with the OASIS Open (General Membership), and General Public groups. Public Event Link

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SUMMARY:Regular monthly LEXIDMA TC meeting
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 ng Admin\n\n\n	Recap of agreed actions\n	AOB\n	Adjourn [no l
 ater than 1500 WEST]\n\n\n  \n\n \nGroup: OASIS Lexicographi
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