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Subject: Re: [oasis-member-discuss] OASIS namespace documents for URN namespaces
Drummond Thanks VERY MUCH. I'll take a look - it looks really interesting. But this motivates me - even more than before - to think that URLs not URNs are the right URIs to use as identifiers. Paul =drummond.reed wrote: >> Paul Fremantle wrote: >> >> Peter >> >> You lost me here: >> >> Peter F Brown wrote: >>> you shouldn't find anything at the end of a URI that purports to be an > identifier except, well, >>> something that helps identify the artefact being referenced. >>> An RDDL document is not an identifier - it is a resource descriptor; >> I'm not a great theoretician, but it seems to me that sticking RDDL+HTML >> as the content dereferenced by an identifier URI is really useful. You >> say its not the only thing that could be dereferenced. I agree - the >> most common thing dereferenced from an identifier URI is a 404 Not Found >> HTML :-) >> >> But seriously: >> >> 1) Can you please give an example of something better or more >> appropriate than a RDDL? > > I would not want to characterize it as either "something better" or > "something more appropriate", but it's worth mentioning an XRDS (Extensible > Resource Descriptor Sequence) document, defined by the OASIS XRI TC. It's > specifically designed for lightweight service discovery, and in addition to > being the format used by XRI resolution, it's also the format used by Yadis > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yadis) and OpenID (www.openid.net). Details > are in the current Working Draft of XRI Resolution 2.0: > > > Http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/24286/xri-resolution-v2.0- > wd-11-ed-02.doc > > =Drummond > >> 2) Can you explain how I can get better information about the meaning of >> a URN than I get from a well written HTML+RDDL document? > > An XRDS document isn't going to give you "better information", just > additional information. > > =Drummond (http://xri.net/=drummond.reed) > > >> Thanks >> Paul >> >> >> >>> ================== >>> From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@us.ibm.com] >>> Sent: 18 June 2007 16:03 >>> To: Peter F Brown >>> Cc: oasis-member-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org; robin.cover@oasis-open.org >>> Subject: RE: [oasis-member-discuss] OASIS namespace documents for URN > namespaces >>> >>> The OASIS TAB has published guidelines for namespace URIs (amongst other > subjects related to >>> metadata) here: >>> > http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNaming.ht > ml >>> These guidelines include recommendation that namespace URIs be HTTP > scheme URIs and that there >>> be a published RDDL document at the namespace URI location. URNs are > permitted for use, but HTTP >>> scheme URIs are preferred/recommended since they can be resolved without > additional machinery. Note >>> that OASIS hs no plans to implement such a resolution mechanism: >>> > http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingCom > mentaryV07.html#urnResolution >>> An example of these guidelines in action can be found with the WS-RX TC's > WS-RM namespace URI: >>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200702 >>> >>> Frankly, I don't personally see any material benefit to use of a URN > scheme namespace. I suspect that >>> some believe that by using a URN, they have created a 'permanent > identifier'. Well, frankly, there is no >>> reason why an HTTP scheme URI cannot be 'permanent'. It isn't as if OASIS > is going to drop off the face of >>> the earth anytime soon. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Christopher Ferris >>> STSM, Software Group Standards Strategy >>> email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com >>> blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/chrisferris >>> phone: +1 508 234 2986 >>> >>> "Peter F Brown" <peter@pensive.eu> wrote on 06/18/2007 09:43:24 AM: >>> >>>> Paul: >>>> I think the objective is laudable but I don't see the point of the >>>> "http://www.oasis-open.org/namespace?ns="; part of the statement. Surely, >>>> if some application wants to do something with the "pure" (and on its >>>> own non-deferenceable) urn, then surely it will ba equipped to make that >>>> call using http get or whatever. >>>> >>>> By effectively tying a namespace to a derefereceable network endpoint >>>> and to specific and prescribed dereferencing mechanism, is there not a >>>> danger that you: >>>> - either limit what can be legitimately found at the network endpoint to >>>> an RDDL file only, cutting out other possible uses of the namespace; >>>> - or creating false expectations and possible architectural problems >>>> when unpredictable results come from finding something other than a RDDL >>>> document at the end of the pipe. >>>> >>>> On the other hand, I'd be in favour of a mechanism by which RDDL >>>> documents, when available, can be accessed using a prescribed OASIS >>>> managed URL to which you would tack the namespace urn. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> ------------- >>>> Peter F Brown >>>> Chair, CEN eGovernment Focus Group >>>> Founder, Pensive.eu >>>> Co-Editor, OASIS SOA Reference Model >>>> Lecturer at XML Summer School >>>> --- >>>> Personal: >>>> +43 676 610 0250 >>>> http://public.xdi.org/=Peter.Brown >>>> www.XMLbyStealth.net >>>> www.xmlsummerschool.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Paul Denning [mailto:pauld@mitre.org] >>>> Sent: 30 May 2007 18:45 >>>> To: oasis-member-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org >>>> Subject: [oasis-member-discuss] OASIS namespace documents for URN >>>> namespaces >>>> >>>> Some OASIS TC's use an HTTP URI when they define an XML >>>> Namespace. Some TC's have started using RDDL as a namespace document >>>> when these namespace URI's are dereferenced using HTTP GET. >>>> >>>> Other OASIS TC's use URN's to identify their XML Namespace. >>>> >>>> I suggest that OASIS provide a mechanism to resolve a namespace >>>> document (RDDL or other) using HTTP and passing in the namespace URN >>>> in a query parameter. >>>> >>>> For example, >>>> >>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/namespace?ns=urn:oasis:names:tc:emergency:EDXL >>>> :DE:1.0 >>>> >>>> would return a RDDL document associated with the EDXL-DE namespace. >>>> >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> >> -- >> Paul Fremantle >> Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2 >> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair >> >> Office: +1 646 290 8050 >> Cell: +44 798 447 4618 >> >> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org >> paul@wso2.com >> >> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com >> > > -- Paul Fremantle Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2 OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair Office: +1 646 290 8050 Cell: +44 798 447 4618 blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org paul@wso2.com "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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