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Subject: RE: [obix-xml] Things I'd like to discuss at tomorrow's telecon.

Welcome aboard.


Within the WSDM group, they have recently published a "white PowerPoint" on how WS-CIM and WS-DM interact. WS-CIM is, briefly, bringing the DMTF (Desktop Management Task Force) to WS.


I would recommend reading through it while imagining all references to CIM are replaced with oBIX. It even has a migratory path to compliance.


And maybe Steve can tell us what the SPLASH stands for.




"There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems."
-- Ed Crowley.

Toby Considine
Facilities Technology Office
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC


Email: Toby.Considine@fac.unc.edu
Phone: (919)962-9073


From: Steve Graham [mailto:sggraham@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 2:19 PM
To: Considine, Toby (Facilities Technology Office)
Cc: obix-xml@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [obix-xml] Things I'd like to discuss at tomorrow's telecon.


Hi All:
Per decision of the WS-Resource Framework Technical Committee, I have been asked to liaise with the OBIX group.

By way of introduction, I am Steve Graham, I work at IBM in the Web Services Standards area.  I have been working on Web Services and SOA for over 5 years now (since early SOAP days).  I have been active in the OASIS WS-Resource Framework and WS-Notification technical committees, as well as contributing to various other Web services specifications. <shamelessPlug> If you want a little more information on my thoughts on SOA and Web services, you can take a look at my book "Building Web Services with Java" (2nd Edition) </shamelessPlug>

I am not caught up on OBIX working drafts and work in progress, but I will try to do so shortly.  I plan to attend tomorrow's call, but please do not assume I am up to speed with your current progress. I hope to attend as regularly as I can.  I would be willing, if the OBIX TC wishes, to try to discuss pertinent and relevant Web services specifications, and particular questions the TC might have on them.  At some point further, I would like the opportunity to be somewhat more insightful and proactively give my thoughts on the WS* Standards relevant to the OBIX TC.  

Meanwhile some <sgg>comments</sgg> on this email thread:

On WS-Addressing.  Note, this specificaiton recently entered into a W3C working group, this group is making good progress towards standardization.  EPRs are a very flexible mechanism, you can think of them as "URIs with extra metadata" or "Web services pointers on steroids".  The beauty of EPRs is that it doesn't matter too much what choices an individual service provider implementation makes, because the choices are really hidden from the service requestor, and the rules the service requestor must follow are clearly specified in the WS Addressing spec.  When I review the OBIX material, I will try to come up with example uses of EPRs.  Perhaps we can walk through a real example if you throw one at me on tomorrow's call.

WS-Eventing and WS-Notification.  It is important in the WS* world, particuarly an Open Standards body like this one, to be careful to distinguish between specifications and activities within open standards bodies.  Ws-notification is a family of specifications.  WS-BaseNotification is that part of WS-notification that most overlaps with Ws-Eventing.  For now, I suspect it would be difficult for an open standards body like OBIX to pre-req WS-Eventing.

With respect to WS-Resource Framework, I would like to think that WS-RF Resource Properties and WS-RF Resource Lifetime are of some importance to the OBIX work.  WS-Service Groups might also be important, but I haven't looked very closely at the scenarios/use cases.


Steve Graham
(919)254-0615 (T/L 444)
STSM, IBM Software Group, Web services and SOA
Member, IBM Academy of Technology
<Soli Deo Gloria/>

"Considine, Toby (Facilities Technology Office)" <Toby.Considine@fac.unc.edu>

02/22/2005 01:21 PM






RE: [obix-xml] Things I'd like to discuss at tomorrow's telecon.




They are - you are correct.

There is considerable latitude w/I the WS-Addressing Spec. A lot of the WSRF
and related standards provides guidance as to how to implement EPRs. I guess
all I m saying is, if we have a choice, lets follower the tighter

The relevant specs (IMO) are


And, perhaps

WS-Resource Service Groups

I'm just trying to stay on the straight and narrow unless there is a good
reason to freelance.


Toby Considine      ! "There are seldom good
UNC Chapel Hill     ! technological solutions to
Chapel Hill, NC     ! behavioral problems."
Phone (919)962-9073 !
Fax (919)962-1102   !             -- Ed Crowley
tobias@fac.unc.edu  !          

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Hansen [mailto:ahansen@tridium.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:09 PM
Cc: obix-xml@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [obix-xml] Things I'd like to discuss at tomorrow's telecon.

I assume you are talking about tagging data (paths or opague ids).  How
are paths or opague strings not WS-Addressing compliant?  I don't even
see how tagging data has anything to do with WS-Addressing.  What am I

Considine, Toby (Facilities Technology Office) wrote:

>Shouldn't this be decided by strict compliance with WS-Addressing? This
>sounds, to me, just like a classing Endpoint Reference (EPR) discussion.
>The relevant W3 spec, then, would be:
>A good current discussion:
>Although this one may be more relevant to us
>For the MS take on this, instead
>And one of my favorites for oBIX, a discussion of the interaction of
>WS-Eventing and ERPs
>Toby Considine      ! "There are seldom good
>UNC Chapel Hill     ! technological solutions to
>Chapel Hill, NC     ! behavioral problems."
>Phone (919)962-9073 !
>Fax (919)962-1102   !             -- Ed Crowley
>tobias@fac.unc.edu  !          
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Aaron Hansen [mailto:ahansen@tridium.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:46 AM
>To: obix-xml@lists.oasis-open.org
>Subject: [obix-xml] Things I'd like to discuss at tomorrow's telecon.
>- Isn't the need only to identify the root object for read/write
>If so,
>- I don't think there is a need for pathing
>- I'm leaning towards an opague "handle" which is the unique identifier.
>Misc notes
>- Should ObjectReadType be ObjectType?
>- Need default values for:
>    * DimensionType -> everything
>    * FacetsType -> resolution, precision, writable
>    * AlarmType -> inAlarm
>    * ReadReqType -> locale, depth
>- How about ext element in IncludeType be a boolean?  Think it would be
>much easier.
>- Shouldn't facets have trueText and falseText?
>- Units: I still don't like unit refs.
>    * We don't have unit read operation.
>    * Which object holds the master unit?  What if the client hasn't
>read it yet?
>    * Id should be a unique unit identifier, the client can table on that.
>- What is root?
>- If read depth is 0, should more children be indicated?
>- How about an object version?  If used, this could be used to indicate
>an object's facets have changed.
>I don't like depth
>- We'll end up double reading most objects during discovery (especially
>if everyone uses depth 1 as I feel they will).  Think about it.
>- In my tests, a depth a 5 resulted in a massively large document.  This
>feature is dangerous.
>- I think read should simply list children handles.

WS-CIM mapping using WSDM - 01102005.ppt

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