Re: [office-accessibility] Minutes: February 10 Accessibility SubteamMeeting

[Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>]

What I believe would be the best approach would be to define a conforming user agent spec. for ODF. This is no small task and I believe we need to create requirements for user agents. However, doing this in the working group is a very big task. Having gone through one User Agent spec. for the W3C. The HTML working group does not create a separate spec. for conforming user agents as it is a big task.


Rich Schwerdtfeger
Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
blog: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?blog=441

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -
I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.", Frost

Peter Korn <Peter.Korn@Sun.COM>

Peter Korn <Peter.Korn@Sun.COM>

02/13/2006 11:27 AM

To	Nathaniel S Borenstein/Concord/IBM@IBMUS
cc	Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, janina@rednote.net, mike paciello <mpaciello@paciellogroup.com>, office-accessibility@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject	Re: [office-accessibility] Minutes: February 10 Accessibility Subteam Meeting

Hi Nathaniel,
> Just to be crystal clear: Keyboard navigation per se is not in scope
> because it is a user interface feature, not an attribute of the
> document standard. What definitely IS in scope, however, is making
> sure that the document format provides enough information to permit
> and facilitate keyboard navigation.
>
> What this seems to mean in practice, so far, is that we need to define
> the mechanism that allows pointers into and out of embedded objects.
> Those pointers would of course facilitate keyboard navigation, but
> they'd similarly facilitate voice navigation, eyeblink navigation,
> direct brain-machine interface, and so on. Our job is to ensure that
> it is possible to access an ODF document using any of those methods,
> but not to define precisely the user interface for any of them. --
> Nathaniel
Is there not a group formed, or forming, that is looking at guidelines
for ODF implementors? If so, this is a topic we should engage them on.
As we've seen with PDF, much of the problem in PDF accessibility is
getting the PDF generators to insert proper tagging (with the result
that while the PDF/A format formally has everything that is needed for
accessibility, the format itself is largely shunned by the blindness
community because in practice the PDF files that are out there "in the
wild" are inaccessible).

We must avoid following the path of PDF accessibility. We will need to
push hard on the ODF implementors to do the right thing. In fact, one
tool to consider (and that has worked fairly well with Microsoft) is
logo requirements. An ODF generating app cannot get some ODF-compliant
logo unless they do right by, among other things, accessibility. Food
for discussion for our next meeting?


Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
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> *Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS*
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> 02/11/2006 10:08 AM
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> To
> Peter Korn <Peter.Korn@Sun.COM>
> cc
> janina@rednote.net, mike paciello <mpaciello@paciellogroup.com>,
> office-accessibility@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject
> Re: [office-accessibility] Minutes: February 10 Accessibility Subteam
> Meeting
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> Yes, keyboard navigation of ODF readers was discussed in my kickoff
> yesterday. See my minutes from the last post. In particular, this is a
> critical for presentations. ... should we have declarative markup to
> define keyboard navigation?
>
> What is the status of Clark?
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
> Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
> blog: _http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?blog=441_
>
> "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -
> I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the
> difference.", Frost
>
> Inactive hide details for Peter Korn <Peter.Korn@Sun.COM>Peter Korn
> <Peter.Korn@Sun.COM>
>
> *Peter Korn <Peter.Korn@Sun.COM>*
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> 02/10/2006 07:10 PM
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> To
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> Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
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> cc
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> office-accessibility@lists.oasis-open.org, mike paciello
> <mpaciello@paciellogroup.com>, janina@rednote.net
>
> Subject
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> Re: [office-accessibility] Minutes: February 10 Accessibility Subteam
> Meeting
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> Hi Rich, gang,
>
> Sorry I was unable to attend this meeting. Mike - welcome to our group!
>
> A quick question: is Jerry Berrier now a formal member, and on the
> alias? If not, shouldn't he be included on the e-mail distribution?
>
> Re: keyboard navigation for ODF readers: is that in scope of this
> subcommittee? If not, is there a group for whom it is in scope?
>
> Re: CSUN - Janina and I have been discussing this for a while, and PJ at
> IBM has also been involved. Rich & Mike - please include me in those
> discussions as well...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >
> > Members Present:
> >
> > Mike Paciello
> > Rich Schwerdtfeger
> > Janina Sajka
> > Nathaniel Borenstein
> > Chieko Asakawa
> > Hironobu Takagi
> >
> > Rich: Introduction: Raising the Bar with ODF ( Goals and Objectives)
> >
> > ODF is the first truly open document format where we can all raise the
> > accessibility bar
> > - Regardless of ODF’s future – Raising the bar will drive all document
> > access to improve
> > - This is an end user effort as much as it is a technical effort – Use
> > Cases are Critical
> > - We must consider a total solution (Application, AT interoperability,
> > Author assistance)
> > - We must execute in a timely fashion
> >
> > Objectives
> > - Support DAISY standards for talking books (allow for XSLT
> transformation
> > - Fill basic gaps between existing Office formats and ODF
> > - Follow existing W3C accessibility standards and markup features
> > (WCAG, XForms, etc.)
> > - Enhance Braille support where possible
> > - Improve Access to Presentations
> > - Improve Keyboard navigation (Can we benefit from Declarative markup
> > for Keyboard navigation?)
> > - Facilitate platform API interoperability (support emerging Dynamic
> > Web Access Standards)
> > - Solutions should be usable!
> >
> > Expected community involvement
> > - Use Cases, Use Cases, Use Cases – You don’t need to be a techy, you
> > need to be a consumer
> > - Feedback
> > - Technical expertise in DAISY, W3C specifications are welcome
> >
> >
> > Page 21 of gap analysis - Chieko Asakawa
> >
> > Chieko: There are 2 types of objects OLE and ODF. On the left side you
> > cans see a list of files and one OLE object. On the right you have a
> > list ODF object. There is an embedded OLE object. Bottom is an example
> > of an ODF object.
> >
> > Hiro: XML based AT can handle the embedded objects.
> >
> > Rich: is there anything we can do to assist in providing the
> > navigation in and out of the embedded objects?
> >
> > Hiro: Don't have an idea on how to tell the browser how to improve
> > keyboard accessibility for embedded objects.
> > Hiro: Can't peform accessibility checking on embedded objects - unless
> > they are ODF.
> > Hiro: Recommend that not use OLE objects because we cannot validate.
> >
> > Rich: Do we leave it up to the user agent on how we navigate in and
> > out of an embedded document.
> > Rich: Is there any keyboard specification in the ODF Spec.
> > Nathaniel: no, we need to address sequencing and the strategies for
> > processing that.
> > Chieko: Z order would be my preference. - Depth.
> > Rich: how does workplace deal with embedded ODF docs
> > Nathaniel: We should not concentrate on just Worklace
> > Mike Paciello: Can we get Harvey Bingham to help as he worked on DAISY?
> > Rich: what is the procedure?
> > Mike Paciello: I can check with Harvey as he lives close.
> > Nathaniel: we need to make sure there are no IPR issues.
> > *Action Item: Mike Paciello to contact Harvey regarding use cases from
> > a DAISY perspective on how to address navigation in and out of
> > embedded object (OLE, ODF)
> > Hiro: Flash can navigate using the down arrow to enter a Flash plugin.
> > Nothing to get out.
> > Hiro: For Microsoft Office this does not work. If we are reading a
> > powerpoint slide an enter key is used to get into the embedded object.
> > escape to exit.
> > MIke: I believe there is a keyboard sequence to get out.
> > *ACTION: Nathaniel investigate whether a parent ODF document may
> > reference an embbeded ODF document as this could impact the navigation
> > sequence.
> > *ACTION: I will pursue use cases in Navigation.
> > *ACTION: Rich to get with Dave Pawson and Janina on getting meta data
> > for DAISY support
> > *ACTION: Hiro and Chieko to provide use cases for navigation documents
> > and in particular presentations as well as sucggestions on how to
> > improve markup to remove the guessing/historises
> > Hiro: SMIL animations are very difficult
> > Hiro: Office has an exporting function to the animation function
> > *ACTION: Hiro and Chieko to provide issues on presentations related to
> > last action item in 2 weeks.
> > Mike: I am particularly sensitive to the value presentation for having
> > an ODF speciification
> > Rich: We need to address value proposition/messaging for CSUN
> > *ACTION: Rich get with Mike Paciello and Janina Sajka on a first pass
> > of messaging
> >
> > Next meeting is in 2 weeks:
> >
> > - Use Cases Mike Paciello on DAISY navigation suggestions
> > - Chieko/Hiro Issues/Use cases for Presentations navigation/processing
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rich Schwerdtfeger
> > Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
> > Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
> > blog:
> _http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?blog=441_
> >
> > "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -
> > I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the
> > difference.", Frost
> >
>
>