Re: [office-accessibility] Writer table example

[Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>]

Sure.

The questions I have for the TC are as follows:

The accessibility subteam has discovered that ODF uses SVG to render tables in presentations. However, ODF does have a table construct used to create rich text documents and spreadsheets (I believe since I have not looked at yet). SVG, by itself, is non-declarative in terms of providing table structure and therefore does not have clearly defined accessibility properties that would allow for assistive technology support. Open Office does have some accessibility meta data in it's SVG table representation but it is undocumented and therefore non-reproducable. In short, SVG table renderings consist of SVG rectangles with embedded text. In order for make this accessible in a consistent way we need to be able to add things like table headers and column descriptions. To do this we need some strategy to address the problem. Note: working with SVG tables (dragging and moving) is extremely slow when compared to and ODF table in writer.

The two optional strategies would be to:

• allow for the presentation format to support the ODF table construct and address issues like keyboard navigation.
• Add Dynamic Web Access accessibility meta data plus other techniques to define a clearly defined mechanism to make it accessible. (http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/roadmap). We may need to also define mechanisms for user agents to construct the DOM. This is significantly more work.

Is it a hard requirement to use SVG in presentations to render tables and why?
Would the TC consider supporting the ODF table construct in presentations?

Cheers,
Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger
Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review  Board
blog: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?blog=441

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - 
I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.", Frost

Nathaniel S Borenstein/Concord/IBM@IBMUS

Nathaniel S Borenstein/Concord/IBM@IBMUS

02/20/2006 07:14 PM

To	Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
cc	dave.pawson@gmail.com, office-accessibility@lists.oasis-open.org, Robert Weir/Cambridge/IBM@Lotus
Subject	Re: [office-accessibility] Writer table example

Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 02/20/2006 01:19:18 PM:

> The net of this is why must we use SVG as the only drawing mechanism in a 
> presentation. 

There's no doubt that it's nearly always preferable, in a standard specification, to specify one and only one way of doing most things.  Unfortunately, it's also nearly always impossible.  For an incredible variety of reasons, you nearly always end up having to support more than one of <<<nearly any example worth discussing>>>. 

I'm not saying this might not be a delightful place for an exception to that rule, but I am skeptical that we can count on such luck.  But neither do we have to worry much about it now.  If multiple alternatives emerge, probably for reasons not currently on our radar, we'll deal with it at the time, as we're unlikely to be able to do anything now to prevent it.   

<soapbox>This is yet another reason why we need to view this sub-committee as more than a short term exercise, and also to try to take matters one intelligently-sized step at a time.  If ODF is successful, it will continue to evolve for years, and new opportunities for accessibility problems will, alas, keep cropping up.  We just have to be smart about solving problems in the right order, and try to make sure we're here for the long term.</soapbox> 

> - Nathaniel, we need to determine from the TC whether there is a reason 
> that tables were not used in presentations as opposed to SVG. We need to 
> also know if this is a hard requirement for the ODF Spec. Note: switching 
> to real ODF tables could be a big hit to 

Rich, I think some cut and paste error lost the end to the above sentence.  This tipped my tenuous understanding of the details of this question teetering over the brink into embarrassed confusion.  Trust me, you don't want me trying to explain this question to the TC on your behalf.  Could you please send me a set of questions in exactly the form that you'd like me to pass on to the TC? (For that matter, you could join the TC mailing list and ask yourself, whichever you prefer.)  -- Nathaniel