office-accessibility message
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Subject: RE: [office-accessibility] FW: [office] merging nested tables with surrounding table
- From: "Mike Paciello" <mpaciello@paciellogroup.com>
- To: "'Pete Brunet'" <brunet@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:20:27 -0400
Okay, thanks for clarifying.
-Mike
Mike Paciello
Cell:
+1.603.566.7713
Mike, Lars is saying what I think
everyone on the WG has already committed to.
A nit in Lars text - he said, "Such tools only provide a
limited navigational context." This is because the only thing an AT can
provide for structural orientation (besides row/col header info) is the row/col
address - the addressing scheme defined for ODF subtables is the source of the
problem.
After the Monday WG meeting
the action item for the WG was to find use cases where subtables are useful
other than for when cells are split or merged.
Pete
Brunet
IBM
Accessibility Architecture and Development
11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004,
Austin, TX 78758
Voice: (512) 838-4594, TL 678-4594, Fax: (512)
838-9666
Ionosphere: WS4G
"Mike Paciello"
<mpaciello@paciellogroup.com>
06/28/2007 05:33 AM
Please respond
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Subject
| [office-accessibility] FW: [office]
merging nested tables with surrounding
table |
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Folks -
I'm following this thread -- please note Lars Oppermann's
latest request.
Pete -- is Lar's proposal in line with your
recommendation?
- Mike
Mike Paciello
Cell:
+1.603.566.7713
-----Original Message-----
From:
Lars.Oppermann@Sun.COM [mailto:Lars.Oppermann@Sun.COM]
Sent: Thursday, June
28, 2007 4:25 AM
To: Andreas J. Guelzow
Cc:
office@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [office] merging nested tables with
surrounding table
The request from the accessibility SC is based on the
finding, that
nested tables are hard to use with A11Y tools. Such tools only
provide a
limited navigational context.
The specification allows for
both, nested tables and row/colspans. In
the case of a nested table, the
specification also provides the
is-subtable attribute, which merges the
nested table with the
surrounding cell.
This means, that implementors
of editors currently have a choice of what
kind of structure they generate
when implementing a function like "split
this cell" or "merge these two
cells".
I think the request of the A11Y SC is mainly about providing
guidance to
implementors to prefer the use of col/rowspan for such
functions. If
subtables are preferred, the resulting documents are harder to
use in an
A11Y context.
So what I would propose for the specification
is to state in the
description of is-subtable, that using nested table
structures may be
problematic for non-visual renditions of the documents.
Henceforth,
col/rowspan should be used whenever appropriate to make the
resulting
document more accessible.
Cheers,
Lars
Andreas J.
Guelzow wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-27-06 at 17:13 +0200, Thomas Zander
wrote:
>> On Wednesday 27 June 2007 16:48:37 Andreas J Guelzow
wrote:
>>> See above example. Failure to provide such support would
complicate the
>>> description of that table.
>> To be sure
we are talking about the same thing; the example you gave is
>>
naturally still possible using subtables. I have not seen any
suggestion
>> to remove that feature.
>
> I understand
the initial request of the accessibility sc to suggest
> exactly that. At
least the argument made are applicable to any kind of
> subtable.
>
> Andreas
>
>
--
Sun Microsystems
Lars Oppermann
<lars.oppermann@sun.com>
Nagelsweg 55
Software Engineer
20097 Hamburg,
Germany Phone: +49 40 23646
959
http://www.sun.com/ Fax:
+49 40 23646
550
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