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Subject: Re: [office-accessibility] [Fwd: Re: [office] Drawing page names (Re:[office] OpenDocument TC Meeting Minutes 2006-02-13)]
Rich,
thanks for the update. We have accepted the proposal, but with the
explicit option to revise it if the SC finds any issues.
It seems to me that what the new extensions to drawing pages are exactly
what we have already for drawing shapes, and I think also for layers.
So, I agree, it seems to be inline with the work on ODF 1.1.
Michael
Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
> Michael,
>
> To clarify. The group should discuss but the title attribute is used for
> the accessible name which supports the platform accessibility APIs. In
> our review of ODF 1.1 it was decided that names are used as unique
> identifiers by the application and to tie those directly to
> accessibility would be wrong. In Symphony we use the name as a fallback
> in the event that a <svg:title> or <svg:description> is not provided.
>
> In Open Office the initial plan was to provide an accessible name of
> "null" if no title was provided. ... Different philosophies.
>
> So, if you have to make decision, your proposal to add <svg:title> and
> <svg:description> elements to pages is inline with our work on ODF 1.1.
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
> Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
> blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
> Inactive hide details for Michael Brauer <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM>Michael
> Brauer <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM>
>
>
> *Michael Brauer <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM>*
> Sent by: Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM
>
> 11/08/2007 10:11 AM
>
>
>
> To
>
> Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM>
>
> cc
>
> office-accessibility@lists.oasis-open.org
>
> Subject
>
> Re: [office-accessibility] [Fwd: Re: [office] Drawing page names (Re:
> [office] OpenDocument TC Meeting Minutes 2006-02-13)]
>
>
>
>
> Rich, Peter,
>
> do I read the minutes from the last SC call correctly that the proposed
> changes are fine for the SC?
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
> > Dear SC members,
> >
> > in our recent TC calls we discussed that drawing page names currently
> > have to be unique (see section 9.1.4 in the recent ODF 1.2 draft), while
> > it in practice sometimes may happen that two pages have the same name.
> >
> > We discussed several option how to deal with this situation, and the
> > last idea is to
> >
> > - keep the uniqueness constrain for drawing page names,
> > - but to add <svg:title> and <svg:description> elements to pages.
> >
> > This allows authors to assign the same title to two or more pages if
> > they really want to do so for whatever reason, while the names still
> > would be unique. It further allows to assign descriptions to pages, what
> > is also not possible at the moment.
> >
> > I accepted an action item to ask you whether this enhancement would be
> > okay for you.
> >
> > Malte mentioned that we may add a title and description also to
> > spreadsheet tables. While this goes beyond the original request, it
> > would be good to know your opinion on this as well.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: [office] Drawing page names (Re: [office] OpenDocument TC
> > Meeting Minutes 2006-02-13)
> > Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:58:52 +0200
> > From: Malte Timmermann <Malte.Timmermann@Sun.COM>
> > To: Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg
> <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM>
> > CC: David Faure <faure@kde.org>, office@lists.oasis-open.org
> > References: <43F5F95B.40408@sun.com> <200710151133.57410.faure@kde.org>
> > <4718C1D0.5060109@sun.com> <4721D955.2090906@sun.com>
> >
> > Makes sense for me.
> >
> > Matches well with what we have for shapes, and the mapping for
> > Accessibility API.
> >
> > BTW - I propose to have the same for sheets in a spreadsheet:
> > - Same features for Accessible Name/Description
> > - Sheet names have much more restrictions because of macro access, so
> > via the Title people can give them names they otherwise can't.
> >
> > Malte.
> >
> > Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote, On 10/26/07 14:11:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I have discussed the results of our discussion in the last TC call
> >> with Christian. He suggests that we adapt solution B (the
> >> draw:display-name) a little, and add <svg:title> and <svg:description>
> >> elements instead of a "draw:display-name" attribute. That is, the
> >> draw:name attribute would stay unique, but the <svg:title> element
> >> could be used to add a non-unique name or title to the page. The two
> >> elements <svg:title> and <svg:description> exist for shapes already.
> >> The solution therefore would be consistent with shapes
> >>
> >> Christian further suggest that we take first actions to deprecate the
> >> draw:id attribute in favour of the new xml:id attribute, by stating
> >> that they can only appear together, and must have the same name.
> >>
> >> See below for mor details:
> >>
> >>> Current Situation
> >>>
> >>> a <draw:page> element has the following attributes
> >>>
> >>> "draw:id" defined as a unique id for drawing pages. In OpenOffice.org
> >>> (OOo), this was never used prior to OOo 2.3.
> >>> It is currently only used for redundant slide transition information.
> >>>
> >>> "draw:name" defined as an optional but unique name. OOo either writes
> >>> a programmatic name ("page1", "page2", etc) or
> >>> a user defined one, which can contain white space. In the xml format
> >>> it is used for links referring to slides inside a document
> >>> and also when defining a custom show. This has the consequence that
> >>> such links break if the user renames the slide.
> >>>
> >>> a shape element has the following attributes
> >>>
> >>> "draw:id" defined as a unique id for shapes. This is used to identify
> >>> shapes for animation effects.
> >>>
> >>> "draw:name" is an optional attribute. It is not documented if this
> >>> has to be unique. In the OOo implementation, shape names
> >>> are enforced to be unique but only for shapes on one slide. For
> >>> historical reasons this is also used for links to shapes in OOo. This
> >>> feature
> >>> breaks if there are multiple shapes with the same name on different
> >>> slides.
> >>>
> >>> In addition a shape has the elements <svg:title> and
> >>> <svg:description> to specify text-only description strings for
> graphical
> >>> objects as specified in §5.4 of [SVG]. This was a A11Y requirement.
> >>>
> >>> Request for non unique page names
> >>>
> >>> The initial request was that the name of a page should not be
> >>> enforced to be unique. To be consisted and to fulfill
> >>> A11Y requirements the <draw:page> element must also have the elements
> >>> <svg:title> and <svg:description>.
> >>> In this context the title could be seen as the display name as
> >>> proposed in solution B. For backward compatibility,
> >>> if no title is given then the name must be used. On the user
> >>> interface the title must become what the user normally
> >>> refers to as the name of the page.
> >>>
> >>> A new request would be to prepare a conform way to identify pages and
> >>> shape elements inside an odf document.
> >>> To enable linking to meta information we must have the xml:id
> >>> attribute for pages (and optionally for shapes).
> >>> This would lead to the situation where we have the xml:id, the
> >>> draw:id and the draw:name documented as kind
> >>> of identifiers for pages (and shapes).
> >>> To have a clean format I propose to add xml:id to both draw:page and
> >>> all shape elements. It will be document that
> >>> draw:id attribute is deprecated and that applications must for now
> >>> export the draw:id attribute with the same value
> >>> as the xml:id element. The attribute draw:id should be removed in a
> >>> later version as soon as there is no more demand
> >>> for backward compatibility.
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Michael Brauer, Technical Architect Software Engineering
> StarOffice/OpenOffice.org
> Sun Microsystems GmbH Nagelsweg 55
> D-20097 Hamburg, Germany michael.brauer@sun.com
> http://sun.com/staroffice +49 40 23646 500
> http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
>
> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1,
> D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
> Amtsgericht Muenchen: HRB 161028
> Geschaeftsfuehrer: Wolfgang Engels, Dr. Roland Boemer
> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Haering
>
>
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>
--
Michael Brauer, Technical Architect Software Engineering
StarOffice/OpenOffice.org
Sun Microsystems GmbH Nagelsweg 55
D-20097 Hamburg, Germany michael.brauer@sun.com
http://sun.com/staroffice +49 40 23646 500
http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1,
D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
Amtsgericht Muenchen: HRB 161028
Geschaeftsfuehrer: Thomas Schroeder, Wolfgang Engels, Dr. Roland Boemer
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Haering
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