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Subject: OASIS ODF A11y SC meeting Minutes, 26 January
Minutes
Office Accessibility SubCommittee Teleconference
January 26, 2009
Submitted by Janina Sajka
Attending:
Hironobu Takagi HT
Tatsuya Ishihara TI
Janina Sajka JS
Peter Korn PK
Malte Timmermann MT
NEW ACTIONS SUMMARY:
ACTION: HT to review bookmark spec to see whether it confirms MT and PK's
contention that it can meet our accessibility requirement.
NOTE: All former action items are now closed.
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NEXT MEETING: February 9
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1. Approval of two sets of minutes:
* January 5th meeting minutes
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-accessibility/email/archives/200901/msg00005.html
* January 11th meeting minutes
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-accessibility/email/archives/200901/msg00006.html
Approved
2. Radio button groups in ODF -> can we come to a final decision?
Key items to note for this:
1. Rich's proposal
<http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-accessibility/email/archives/200811/msg00017.html>
(see
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-accessibility/email/archives/20081/msg00017.html)
-> essentially the attribute form:name is being overloaded,
and he suggests we introduce an element specifically for the
grouping, borrowing from the XForms group element xforms:group
2. Malte has expressed concerns about backward compatibility
3. Peter created a document (see attached) with a group
control. Absent in Rich's example is the fact that there is
a form:frame element that seems to do the same thing as
<form:frame form:name="GroupBox"...
form:for="control5,control6"/> element which has it's own
label and handles the group. Is this not sufficient?
PK: Does this address our need?
MT: Rich view is not for a list of ids, but a group name.
PK: Did not see the form frame element.
MT: Also discussed with Michael Brower, who's not sure about making changes at
this time.
PK: I don't see why it's necessary. It's the responsibility of the authoring
tool to generate all the necessary information, and there's sufficient
specificity to do that.
PK: So, we'll defer until all the principals can be part of the conversation:
Rich, Peter, Malte. We confirm that Peter and Malte are available on 9
February.
3. Intra-document links -> do we have a conclusion from Hiro & Svante?
HT: Intradoc linking critical, especially for screen reader user. TOC to inner
document section is the most obvious example.
TI: We decided to support the TC proposal, which is not yet integrated
into the spec.
TI: His proposal is sufficient for us. However, his proposal isn't yet
completed.
http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/Change_Proposal_for_ODF_1.2_using_URL_fragment_identifiers_for_ODF_media_types
ACTION: PK and RS to work with TC to implement URL fragment.
SCRIBE'S NOTE: Following discussion indicates that we did not, in fact, reach agreement
for the above action.
MT: Actually, existing mechanisms are sufficient for this:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-accessibility/email/archives/200901/msg00018.html
HT: Thought we discussed this in previous call--am I wrong?
MT: Text marker example is the best example in this document. It supports
jumping from anywhere to anywhere.
PK: We just call these bookmarks ...
PK: Typical algorithm would be looking at link target.
MT: Yes and no. It's hard to figure out the target for auto generated links.
But that's an implementation issue.
PK: So the fix we need is in apps, not in the spec.
MT: Yes
MT: The logic of it needs to be defined in the spec. We simply need to
document how the current hyperlinks work.
PK: Hiro, have you reviewed this?
HT: Have you modified this?
MT: Only for manipulated text3. The other you can do with OpenOffice. Once you
insert bookmark in OO, you can use it as a target.
JS: Seems we want automatic targets for TOC automatically.
PK: It does.
MT: But not auto gen'd bookmarks that depend on the pipe symbol ...
HT: One of my points is interoperability among applications that implement ODF.
So, we would need to define how this is handled in the spec.
PK; But it appears there is consistent markup.
HT: Not well defined in the spec. I believe xml fragment would be a more
consistent approach, but I will consider alternative approaches. So, in this
case something like: "name of bookmark" for url fragment.
MT: It has many use cases. My only point is we have enough now for a11y. It's
up to the interoperability committee to decide next steps.
PK: Is there a bug registered for start and end of bookmarks?
MT: No
PK: Do you agree that's the issue?
MT: No
PK: Looking at the xml for <h1>test and <h1>test2, there is no target. Is
there no t the reason to have this target bookmark?
MT: From interop perspective, I agree.
PK: Which is why I think it's a bug against OpenOffice.
MT: Yes
HT: I also have a concern about consistency. I believe I checked bookmarks
before following only the spec definition--so maybe I should check it again.
PK: One possibility is consistent start/end bookark; another is Sante's
proposal; or some other. But all apps should use the same mechanism.
MT: Agree.
the issue is that OOo is failing to insert a <text:bookmark> element
surrounding the string "H1 Test"
<korn> Janina: here is a suggestion for the minutes as our conclusion: "the
issue is that OOo does NOT create targets (using
the existing <text:bookmark-start><text:bookmark-end> element
mechanism) for Headers for generated TOCs.A This is a
BUG in OOo.A However, Malte suggests that we don't seek to fix
this bug until the question of use of fragment
identifiers (e.g. Svante's proposal) is settled."
ACTION: Hiro to review bookmark spec to see whether it confirms MT and PK's
contention that it can meet our accessibility requirement.
PK: Votes requested for people not on the call whether aware of
All old actions now closed.
feb 9 next meeting.
MEETING ENDS
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4. Actions remaining for the guidelines document
-> Pete Brunet posted an updated edition at:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-accessibility/email/archives/200901/msg00013.html
-> other than fixing the table of contents, and following the
latest rules for the front page, anything else remain to be done?
5. Prior action items:
* Hiro contact Svante Schubert regarding merging his xml:id
proposal for local links into Svante's link proposal
* Rich Provide a section on PDF conversion related to
supporting repeating table headers in PDF
* Peter Korn and Pete Brunet to specify the text of how table
row and column information are mapped in ATK and IA2
Pete's response:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-accessibility/email/archives/200811/msg00020.html
Regards,
Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect & Principal Engineer,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
--
Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.202.595.7777;
sip:janina@CapitalAccessibility.Com
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://CapitalAccessibility.Com
Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and Canada
Learn more at http://ScreenlessPhone.Com
Chair, Open Accessibility janina@a11y.org
Linux Foundation http://a11y.org
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