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Subject: Advanced Collaboration Subcommittee Con Call Notes 2010-12-15


Present:

Rob Weir
Doug Mahugh
Robin La Fontaine (Chair)
Frank Meies
Tristan Mitchell (note taking)
John Haug
Thorsten Behrens
Dennis Hamilton
Peter Junge
Mingfei Jia

Introductions and initial thoughts:

Thorsten Behrens - Novell
Working on OpenOffice.org for 10 years. Now working on LibreOffice.
Also a member of ISO WG 4
Interested in XML differencing in general
Change tracking is not satisfactory and needs improving.
Like this fact that at the moment it 'kind of works'

John Haug - Microsoft
Track changes is an important customer requirement for them
They would like to see it improved to allow them to be interoperable with other vendors.
No specific input now but mentioned the need to see certain document scenarios covered (John: if you have some use cases to contribute, please let us know)

Dennis Hamilton - Individual
Secretary of the Interoperability TC (OIC TC)
Interested in track changes from the interoperability point of view. As he sees it the spec doesn't current provide interoperability
Also interested in the concept of ensuring that documents can be kept forever.
Expertise to offer on spotting problems in specifications

Peter Junge - Individual
Has worked for Sun and now RedFlag 2000 (RedOffice). Now an independent consultant.
Not sure about the frequency of his input but is generally interested in change-tracking. Also has interest in the Chinese UOF format.

Doug Mahugh - Microsoft
Been on the ODF TC for 2.5 years - was the first MS employee to join.
Was responsible for explaining the reasons behind the decision not to implement change tracking in their ODF implementation.
His main requirements are that change tracking should be comprehensive and interoperable.
John will be main MS representative, but he can put us in touch with others as needed.

Frank Meies - Sun/Oracle
Been working for Sun/Oracle for 10 years.
Works on the text processing and layout in OOWriter. This includes track changes processing.
He would like to see change tracking in OOo improved.
Collaboration is a very important requirement for their customers.
Likes the simplicity of the current system although it can be too simple at times (missing out table tracking for example).
They have lots of customer requests for change tracking improvement.

Tristan Mitchell - DeltaXML
Background in XML comparison, in particular developing ODT extension for ODT document comparison, which was developed for technical and legal documents. This does not use ODF change tracking as not good enough to show all changes.
Attended last Plugfest in Brussels.
Detailed proposal for change tracking submitted to TC as part of review process prior to the formation of this SC.
Likes about current change tracking: easy to ignore, listed together, uses markup not processing instructions.
Does not like: cannot track all types of change, e.g. across hierarchy, not easy to process with XSLT

Rob Weir - IBM
Likes the fact that the current system is implemented and therefore has inertia.
Also the fact that it doesn't need to have a full editor implementation in order to process it e.g. scripts the ODF TC uses to accept all changes. Lots of tracked changes can slow down editors.
Dislikes the fact that it is not complete. Mentioned the need to track all current features but also to future-proof it so that no extra work is needed when new features are added.
Would like to see a high degree of consensus on the SC, including substantial implementation experience before presenting this to the TC.
Has some use cases to contribute.

Mingfei Jia - IBM
Currently working on Symphony. Would like to join the SC (perhaps!). Thought this was OIC conf call 14.30 so joined late.

Robin La Fontaine - DeltaXML
Background in XML comparison, and representing changes in XML. Asked to do work in this area, proposal submitted to TC as part of ODF review. This was new proposal, not DeltaXML technology (which has a different way to represent changes). Proposal focussed on document change tracking rather than generic XML change. Agree with comments made by others re strengths and weaknesses of current change tracking method.


Robin mentioned that two important points that repeatedly came up are
1) Need to increase the scope/completeness of track changes
2) Customers want to see this improvement

Rob Weir mentioned four possible ways of working:

1) Always meet at 14.00hrs as this is the most generally convenient time
2) Have infrequent conference calls and do most of the work on the mailing list
3) Switch meeting times each week to accommodate different people each time
4) Repeat meetings so that each agenda has two (or more) calls

It was agreed that option 2) is probably the best.

Dennis Hamilton would like infrequent meetings but at the same time each call
Peter Junge will probably not participate regularly so we shouldn't worry about accommodating him time-wise
John Haug would like to avoid Tuesdays if possible as he has a very late commitment each Monday and so an early call is difficult
Thorsten Behrens would prefer a Tuesday as he has other commitments on a Thursday (though it is not impossible)

Rob Weir will add a JIRA component for use by the SC.

Robin will discuss best time for conf calls (probably monthly) with Rob in the New Year.

Robin thanked everyone for participating in the call, especially those for whom it was very early, very late or they were officially on holiday. If any member of the SC has concerns or issues please contact Robin.

Meeting ended approx 14.45hrs GMT.

-- 
-- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Robin La Fontaine, Director, DeltaXML Ltd  "Change control for XML"
T: +44 1684 592 144  E: robin.lafontaine@deltaxml.com      
http://www.deltaxml.com      
Registered in England 02528681 Reg. Office: Monsell House, WR8 0QN, UK









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