RE: [office-collab] Format content - target September 26 2012

["Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>]

Based on the ODF documents I've inspected, and the OpenOffice scenarios that produce them, automatic styles are not accessible to users.  That is, they are created by formatting actions by users but they are not perceivable.  All the user sees is the formatting action.  

This seems to be a consequence of the "all-formatting is via styles mantra," although modification of automatically-derived styles is generally not user functionality.  (It is actually quite different to know when the same automatic style has been used in multiple places -- there does not seem any necessity to avoid multiple automatic styles that are duplications.) 

Now, the OpenOffice-lineage implementations do track "changed attributes" as well as insertions and deletions.  I do know when I change a font when doing change-tracked modifications of an ODF specification, I see the changed-attribute marking.  I suspect that if I change a defined style applicable to a passage of text, the same will happen, though I haven't had occasion to do that.  

I suspect that a change to the definition of a defined style will have an impact everywhere a style is used.  I haven't checked that either, but I'll wager that it is not tracked because there is no way to track the change to a style definition in ODF 1.0/.../1.2.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of John Haug
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 13:26
To: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann; office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [office-collab] Format content - target September 26 2012

I've never been entirely clear on all aspects of automatic styles and how (and why) they differ from "common" styles, but isn't there the possibility that a user changes properties on an object and either a new automatic style is created and the object's style reference is changed or the existing automatic style is changed and thus impacts all objects that refer to it?  Both cases seem potentially trackable changes since they alter the presentation of the document content.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:57 AM
To: office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [office-collab] Format content - target September 26 2012

Hi,
> Greetings!
>
> Your daily dose of CT issues!
>
> The ECT proposal notes that ODF 1.2 does not track style changes, so 
> the first question for the SC:
>
> 1) Do we accept that style changes should be tracked?
>
> I am assuming yes but I think we need to be clear on that point 
> because it brings up:
>
> What changes we want to make to the style mechanisms?
>
> Now we have common, automatic, master (just from memory).
>

My view on automatic styles and changes to them is the following:
- An automatic style represents more or less the attributes set at a certain "component". E.g., the formatting attributes of a paragraph.
- If the automatic styles of two or more "components" are the same, the automatic style only occurs once in the ODF document and is referenced by all "components" which have the corresponding attributes in common.
- Thus, a change to an automatic style does not really exist for me.
- If a change of the attributes of a certain "component" occurs - for me - it means that it applies a another automatic style.
Thus, a change to an automatic style more or less does not happen in my view.
What is happening in my view is the creation of a new automatic style and the change of which automatic style is referenced.

My view on common styles and changes to them is the following:
- Changes to common styles happen ;-)
- Such a change could be:
-- change of the value of an attribute
-- insertion/deletion of an attribute
-- insertion/deletion of a child element.


> I would prefer to simplify the style mechanisms prior to defining 
> change tracking for them.
>
> Hope everyone is having a great week!
>
> Patrick
>

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
Oliver-Rainer Wittmann

--
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