Re: [office-collab] Paragraph merge in ODF (earlier - Re: [office-collab] FW: [office] Groups - MCT Challenge #1 Documents (Zip) uploaded)

[Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com>]

Just let us describe how a merge of a paragraph/heading does occur in ODF.

No need to keep the scenario simple by omitting parts of the analysis.
Quite the opposite is necessary IMHO as the design of a solution have to
be able to fulfill the whole complexity not only a part of it. Otherwise
by omitting complexity more inadequate designs for the final solutions
are likely to be chosen.

Yes, I read your analysis and it is very interesting to notice that ODF
applications are keeping hard formatted text attributes during a merge.
Still it does not describe what occurs with other possible format
combination. The start document has only hard formatting text properties
on both components and the second got only a hard formatted paragraph
style. Missing was the hard formatted paragraph for the first paragraph
and that combination of format properties for a named style.

What I have observed during testing..

As start possible condition:
Both paragraph/heading to be merged may have text (or character) and
paragraph format properties and this format property set might be either
hard formatted (automatic style) or given by a named style (from the
styles.xml).

What happens during a merge:
The first paragraph (or heading) will keep its named style properties
(both text and paragraph), while the character (or text) format
properties are being moved from each paragraph to spans within the
merged paragraph.
If a paragraph and a heading will be merged the final type is equal to
the type of the first component.

Has somebody observed anything different?

PS: As you I do not care about bugs of existing applications nor do I
look at the existing change-tracking. What is interesting to me is the
serialization of the start document and the serialization of the end
document. Together with a high-level explanation of user interaction
with the ODF applications (the user intention).

Thanks,
Svante

On 15.10.2012 20:07, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> The example I gave is with existing implementations.  You can inspect the packages of the before-and-after document.
>
> There is a bug in the application I used where the paragraph-level styles on the second paragraph are not restored when the deletion is rejected.  That is because the difference in paragraph-level styles was not captured in the tracked change for the deletion.  It is pretty obvious how that could be done correctly.
>
> I am certain that is a bug and not a consequence of anything in the ODF specification.  It is certainly clear that an user would expect rejection of the change in a later session to return to exactly what was there before.  The problem with the bug is that a third party editor who rejected the deletion might not know that the restoration of the document was, in fact, incorrect.  That is hardly desirable of an implementation. 
>
> I intentionally kept the challenge case very simple since it is enough to see what MCT needs to deal with.  I would be disappointed if MCT duplicated the bug.  
>
> (There will be more ...)
>
>  - Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Svante Schubert
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 03:09
> To: office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: [office-collab] Paragraph merge in ODF (earlier - Re: [office-collab] FW: [office] Groups - MCT Challenge #1 Documents (Zip) uploaded)
>
> Hello Dennis,
>
> Thank you for your example.
>
> Before we are proposing a MCT solution, let us agree on what ODF application should be doing in this scenario.
> I would like to ask the ODF implementors to test this with their applications.
>
> We have two paragraphs in ODF with text and paragraph style formats.
> Deleting the text from the mid of the first to the mid of the second paragraph, i.e.
>
> <p>start delete</p>
> <p>delete end</p>
>
> --> will result into -->
>
> <p><start end</p>
>
> --> more precisely into --> 
> <p>
>     <span>start </span>
>     <span>end</span>
> </p>
>
> Allow me to extend the scenario as automatic and template styles are handled different. The overall merge scenario is unfortunately a little more complex than Dennis scenario has stated.
>
> From my observations ODF applications act like:
> All paragraph style properties are taken over from the first paragraph (automatic and template styles). The first paragraph wins! Only the automatic text properties of each paragraph will be merged. Taken from each paragraph automatic style they will be used as stand-alone text properties within spans created into the remaining paragraph. 
> The template text properties of the second paragraph are getting lost as well.
>
> These are my observation from testing with OOo 3.4.1 (and partly with using MS Office 2013 preview - at least the first automatic scenario), might be a nice scenario for the upcoming ODF plugfest in Berlin.
>
> Some might say the first span is redundant, as the text properties might remain in the first paragraph - at least I would have assumed this as a user -, but we might want to specify according to the behavior of the existing applications.
> Note that the above scenario works as well if one of the two paragraphs is a heading instead. 
>
> Our goal is that an undo of the above change(s) should return the document in the previous state.
> Do we all agree on the above observations of what should be archived?
>
> Thanks,
> Svante
>
> On 13.10.2012 23:12, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>
>
> 	The public location of the document description and its download link is at 
> 	<https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=47179> <https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=47179> .
> 	
> 	MCT Challenge #1 is an outgrowth of discussions on the office-collab list on the thread ending at this message:
> 	<https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-collab/201210/msg00011.html> <https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-collab/201210/msg00011.html> .
> 	
> 	 - Dennis
> 	
> 	-----Original Message-----
> 	From: office@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:office@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Hamilton
> 	Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 13:27
> 	To: office@lists.oasis-open.org
> 	Subject: [office] Groups - MCT Challenge #1 Documents (Zip) uploaded
> 	
> 	________________________________
> 	
> 	Description
> 	This Zip package contains three documents:
> 	
> 	An original ODF 1.2 Text document with no tracked changes
> 	
> 	The ODF 1.2 Text document that results from making a change-tracked
> 	deletion in the original document.
> 	
> 	The CT-2012-10-13-1256-MCT-Challenge-01.odt document that describes the MCT
> 	Challenge #1 and demonstrates features of the ODF 1.2 change-tracking. 
> 	
> 	The challenge is to obtain a precise description of how MCT represents the
> 	same situation in a persistent, change-tracked document, for confirming
> 	that the tracked-change can be presented to users with visible
> 	representation of the change. It is also desirable that the details be
> 	precise enough to confirm how the change can be accepted or rejected in an
> 	implementation.
> 	
> 	The ODF 1.2 change-tracking is employed because it provides a grounded case
> 	and because convertibility to MCT and downlevel back to ODF 1.2 also need
> 	to be comprehended to the degree either is a commitment for MCT.
> 	
> 	The 
> 	Download Latest Revision <https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/47179/latest/MCT-Challenge-01.zip> <https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/47179/latest/MCT-Challenge-01.zip>  
> 	Public Download Link <https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=47179&wg_abbrev=office> <https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=47179&wg_abbrev=office>  
> 	
> 	________________________________
> 	
> 	Submitter: Mr. Dennis Hamilton
> 	Group: OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC
> 	Folder: Miscellaneous
> 	Date submitted: 2012-10-13 13:27:07
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
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