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Subject: Re: FW: [office-comment] Orientation problems with angles

• From: robert_weir@us.ibm.com
• To: office-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
• Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 10:13:07 -0400

For relative rotations (relative to current placement) all you need to do is specify the amount of rotation and direction (clockwise versus counter-counterclockwise).  The coordinate system is irrelevant.

For absolute positioning, e.g., "place the arrow so it is pointed at +45 degrees" then you need more context.

In any case, I've added this issue to JIRA (OFFICE-3775) so we can track any proposed resolution there.

-Rob

"Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote on 08/05/2012 11:46:03 AM:

> From: "Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>

> To: <office-comment@lists.oasis-open.org>,
> Date: 08/05/2012 11:47 AM
> Subject: FW: [office-comment] Orientation problems with angles
>
> [Sorry, sent from an unrecognized address before.]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [
mailto:himself@orcmid.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 23:36
> To: 'Andreas J. Guelzow'; 'office-comment@lists.oasis-open.org'
> Subject: RE: [office-comment] Orientation problems with angles
>
> Help me understand this better,
>
> From the perspective of the observer that you refer to,
>
> Where is the origin, and in which directions are +X and +Y from that
> origin?  And from which axis (+X, +Y, -X, -Y) extending from the
> origin does this clockwise motion originate that opens the angle
> with respect to which the gradient vector is oriented?
>
>  - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andreas J. Guelzow [
mailto:andreas.guelzow@concordia.ab.ca]
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 22:30
> To: office-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [office-comment] Orientation problems with angles
>
> On Sat, 2012-08-04 at 21:07 -0600, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> > Are you not assuming the orientation of the +X and +Y axis directions
> > and the placement of the origin from the perspective of the viewer in
> > making that statement?
>
> I don't see how the coordinate system has anything to do with
> "clockwise" nor how the placement of the origin is involved in a
> clockwise rotation. The clocks I know have no coordinate system nor an
> origin (just a centre of rotation). The meaning of "clockwise" is
> uniquely determined once we know on which side of the plane the viewer
> is. And in the case of office documents this is always clear.
>
> Andreas
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Andreas J. Guelzow [
mailto:andreas.guelzow@concordia.ab.ca]
> > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 17:27
> > To: office-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: Re: [office-comment] Orientation problems with angles
> >
> > On Sat, 2012-08-04 at 15:04 -0600, Regina Henschel wrote:
> > > Hi members,
> > >
> > > a lot of places, which use angles, are not exact enough about the
> > > direction of the angle. The reason for this problem is, that the spec
> > > does not define a coordinate system and therefor terms like "clockwise"
> >
> > If we are talking about angles in a plane document with respect to
> > rotations, what is ambiguous about "clockwise"?
> >
> > > or "start at 12 o'clock" are ambiguous. Sometimes a direction is totally
> > > missing or even a leg of the angle is missing. To get an angle with
> > > directions you need an ordered pair of rays.
> >
> > A rotation in the plane is uniquely determined by its centre, the
> > measure of the angle and whether angles are measured clockwise or
> > counterclockwise.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > How to improve the situation?
> > > (1) Do not define own elements or attributes, when well defined one
> > > exists in SVG.
> > > (2) Illustrate the definitions, for example as it is done in SVG for the
> > > coordinate system
> > > [
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/coords.html#InitialCoordinateSystem]
> > > (3) Be careful to define the legs of the angle as ordered pair of rays
> > > for every angle.
> >
> > > (4) Deprecate an attribute, when it has often been implemented with
> > > wrong direction, and define an unambiguous solution.
> >
> > If implementations have bugs, those bugs should be fixed rather than the
> > standard changed.
> >
> > Andreas
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andreas J. Guelzow, PhD, FTICA
> > Concordia University College of Alberta
> >
> >
>
> --
> Andreas J. Guelzow, PhD, FTICA
> Concordia University College of Alberta
>
>
> --
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