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Subject: Re: [office-formula] Key Issues
Hi Daniel, On Sat, Feb 25, 2006 at 22:41:28 +0000, Daniel Carrera wrote: > The only drawback of levels is that we might see spreadsheets complying > to level 1 only and then saying to their customers "we're compliant". > For this reason, I'd like level 1 to be good and meaningful for the > average user. How do we identify the average user? The average bank clerk has other needs than the average home user than the average engineer. > I don't know about levels >1 but I think that it's important that level > 1 be complete enough to guarantee interoperability for most users. I > wonder, is this goal compatible with the goal of making level 1 suitable > for tiny PDAs? I'm not familiar with tiny PDAs, what function set do they support? > * As a developer, I don't want the spec telling me how to do UI. That is > none of the spec's business. > * UI considerations may be incompatible with interoperability goals. > * Adding UI requirements will only create a gratuitious barrier. No one > will change their UI just to comply with OpenDocument. Even I might not. > * UI considerations would make the spec much larger for no benefit that > I can see. > * OpenDocument doesn't include UI. 5 very valid points. Thanks. > test cases == lower barriers to adoption > > Isn't this one of the reasons why OpenDocument uses RelaxNG instead of > DTD? Because RelaxNG allows you to make a more precise automated test? Isn't that more because OASIS endorses RelaxNG and RelaxNG is going ISO? Honestly, I've no idea. > >Wheeler believes it is VERY difficult to write unambiguous text, > > Mathematical information is easier to convey in mathematical language. > > Formula spec == mathematical information. > Test cases == mathematical language. > > >* Discuss use of Wiki. Do we want to try to put stuff in a Wiki > >and LATER transition text to ODF? Transition to an ODF document NOW? > > We have to use the OASIS wiki, right? Can non-OASIS people use the OASIS > wiki? What I have understood, OASIS resources can only be used by OASIS members, which is good in terms of copyright because a member declares to only contribute work he owns the copyright for, and every committee work has to be done using OASIS resources for transparency. > >One issue: The Wiki must be MoinMoin, and it's unclear if OASIS will > >install the MoinMoin math formula support. Without formula support, > >formulas may be harder to create. > > Formulas are hard to create with OpenDocument tools also. And I don't > fancy using LaTeX for the spec. What about OOoMath? > I don't like the "strict" vs "loose" idea. I'm ok with the levels idea, > but in general I'd prefer to define scemantics strictly. The problem with defining semantics strict at the moment is that there are several semantics and only a few applications do it identical, if at all. > poor scemantics == poor interoperability Strict defined semantics == at most 2 applications supporting it. > I don't think that strict scemantics have to be a problem as long as the > formula spec also provides explicit type conversion functions. Consider > this example: > > * In BobOffice "3"+3 is 6. > * In AlliceOffice "3"+3 is an error. > * Take this spreadsheet in BobOffice > > A > 1 "3" > 2 3 > 3 =A1+A2 > > When I *save* this spreadsheet in BobOffice, the cell A3 could be saved as: > > =StringToNum([.A1])+A2 > > > Now, when I open the file in AliceOffice, AlliceOffice sees the explicit > conversion and gives me the appropriate result. Except if A1 contained "3,1" or "12.345,67" or "1/2/3" (intended as date). And what is "12'234.56"? > CONSEQUENCES: > > * Now we have interoperability. > * BobOffice doesn't have to change the UI. > * But BobOffice and AliceOffice must implement a StringToNum() function. Which wouldn't help without information about which input locale the string originated from. Eike
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