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Subject: Re: [office-formula] Our next adventure: Types and conversions
Hi Eike, On 6/2/06, Eike Rathke <erack@sun.com> wrote: > Based on my experience with OOo's bug tracking system this indeed is one > of the main differences that keep people mourning about "my spreadsheet > calculates different", just because they don't notice that text doesn't > calculate, respectively calculates as 0 in some cases. This is something > we'll have to address. Well, if your suggestion goes in, then they'll just get an error message instead, so the thing won't calculate either. I do see where you are trying to go with this, but I don't think that it would help much, you just create a different kind of confusion - "it says I have a text in there, but it's a number, look !" > I don't consider D being basically the same as B. B goes unnoticed, > whereas D clearly indicates an error the user either has to correct or > won't get a result at all. Yet they both do restrict functionality. I think this is where our opinions disagree, you're thinking about Joe the user, whereas I think about the power users and such. So, the question at hand would be, whether we want to make things less confusing for group 1, or more powerful for group 2. And you know my stand on this :) My experience shows that Joe the user will be confused about things no matter what, so I'm more inclined towards making things powerful, rather than limited in functionality to avoid confusion. > Everyone who shares documents between different locales. A thing I do > almost every day. Also see .sig ;-) > I thought we had been through that already? Yes but we didn't come up with any consensus :) > > As for locale conversions, there are three options. > > A. ignore the problem and hope for the best. > > Which is what many spreadsheets do. To my opinion unacceptable. Well, possibly, but basing on the problems that we now face, it does sound like they have a reason for being that way. > We are not talking about power users here. We're talking about the > average spreadsheet user accidentally having input some number as text. -grin- Looks like the different views come to play again. I am talking about someone deliberately inputting a number as a string and wondering why it doesn't convert :) > > C. number-text conversions first try C-locale, and then try user's > > locale. That way, if people want locale-agnostic documents, they can > > stick to using C-locale in formulas - not a problem for programmers, > > and others won't use this much anyway. > > Sigh.. again, you are basing this on wrong assumptions. Maybe, but what else to use ? You are proposing =VALUEL("12,45", "sk") - that would be for my locale, and it is to be treated as "12.45". Now, that might work IF all spreadsheets know all locales - only that they don't ! If you have a spreadsheet aimed at US users, and US users only, the creators of it won't know my locale, thus the program will not support it. Now, someone with such a spreadsheets wants to open my document with VALUEL from "sk" locale - and now what ? The spreadsheet knows nothing about "sk" locale, so what should it do to ensure that the result will be the same than it is on my computer ? It simply is not feasible to require all spreadsheets to know all possible locales, hence such an approach is doomed to failure. > With the TEXT() function and the '&' operator and CONCATENATE(), yes. Yes. What will TEXT() produce ? On an US locale, TEXT(12345.45) will output "12,345.45". On my locale, it will be "12 345,45". On someone else's locale, it might be something completely different - Chinese characters or whatever. I think the problem at hand would be like this: is it at all POSSIBLE to come up with a solution that would cater to all needs ? The only solution that would ensure at least SOME interoperability (and that even in number->string case, not vuce versa unless you use a function that outputs text in C locale) that I was able to come up with was the one that I proposed - conversions use C-locale and are stored that way. / Tomas
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