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*Subject*: **Re: [office-formula] Calculation Settings**

*From*:**"David A. Wheeler" <dwheeler@dwheeler.com>***To*: "Andreas J. Guelzow" <aguelzow@math.concordia.ab.ca>*Date*: Fri, 15 May 2009 17:48:41 -0400

Andreas J. Guelzow wrote: > On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 18:01 +0000, Eric Patterson wrote: > >> - Table:null-date represents a date. Are conforming applications required to support any possible value for this setting? >> >> I believe that settings that are most portable and produce the best interoperability to be: >> >> table:null-date ="1899-12-30" That's probably true as being the MOST portable. But the hope was to support other options. > The more times I read the 1.2 draft the less I understand how this is > useful at all. > > How often are users going to use the date "0"? The "null-date" value is the beginning-of-the-epoch value. It's not that they use "date 0", it's that when you see "7000", you know what the starting point is. > There may be an implicit assumption that the number 100 represents a > date 100 days after the null-date but > (a) I don't see that stated anywhere > (b) Not all current spreadsheet programs fulfil this assumption. It's there. It's worded slightly more oddly, because of the many spreadsheet apps that get 1900 leap-years wrong. In 3.3 is says: "table:null-date (1899-12-30): Defines the beginning of the epoch; a numeric date of 0 equals this date." > There is some specification relating to this in the openformula draft > (4.2.2) but that seems to be restricted to formulas from that name > space. Even in the draft, applications are allowed to reproduce the > "1900 is calculated as a leap year" situation. Since we don't have a > calulation setting reflecting that, table:the null-date only tells us > something about the date->number conversion in OpenFormula for the date > range from the null-date until 1900/2/28 unless the null date is after > 1900/2/28. OpenFormula only applies to OpenFormula formulas, of course. All specs only apply to users of the spec :-). Section 4.2.2 says this: "Date and DateTime A Date is a subtype of number; the number is the number of days from a particular date called the epoch. Thus, a date when presented as a general-purpose number is also called a serial number. This specification does not specify the exact value of the epoch, but implementations shall support all dates from 1904-01-01 through 9999-12-31 (inclusive), with correct calculations. Portable spreadsheet files shall not assume any particular epoch values. Since dates are simply numbers, they can be added, subtracted, and so on like other Numbers. Subtracting one date from another produces the number of days between the dates. Implementations of formulas in an OpenDocument file shall use the epoch specified in the table-null-date attribute of the <table:calculation-setting> element, and shall support at least the following epoch values: 1899-12-30, 1900-01-01, and 1904-01-01." So here's how I read the spec: for dates starting at 1904-01-01, you MUST correctly calculate dates from the beginning of the epoch (0). It doesn't _require_ that dates be calculated correctly BEFORE that date, but it DOES permit it. E.G., Excel doesn't handle 1900 incorrectly, and need not change to implement the spec. OpenOffice does 1900 correctly, and it doesn't need to change either. Mac spreadsheets that use 1904-01-01 as the epoch can have trouble with ANY date before then. This means that dates before 1904-01-01 (esp. in year 1900) are not necessarily exchangeable per the spec, but this _IS_ actually the current situation. The important point is that we don't REQUIRE applications to do it wrong. I agree with Eric Patterson, as I noted above... "1899-12-30" is the most likely value for null-date. Which is why it's the default. --- David A. Wheeler

**Follow-Ups**:**Re: [office-formula] Calculation Settings***From:*"Andreas J. Guelzow" <aguelzow@math.concordia.ab.ca>

**References**:**[office-formula] Calculation Settings***From:*Eric Patterson <ericpa@exchange.microsoft.com>

**Re: [office-formula] Calculation Settings***From:*"David A. Wheeler" <dwheeler@dwheeler.com>

**RE: [office-formula] Calculation Settings***From:*Eric Patterson <ericpa@exchange.microsoft.com>

**RE: [office-formula] Calculation Settings***From:*"Andreas J. Guelzow" <aguelzow@math.concordia.ab.ca>

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