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Subject: Re: [office-metadata] Linking in a vocabulary


Elias,

Elias Torres wrote:

>Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net> wrote on 05/04/2007 10:42:22 AM:
>
>  
>
>>Elias,
>>
>>Snipping to the request for more information:
>>
>>Elias Torres wrote:
>><snip>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>Second question: How do I say that a term that is defined by more
>>>>specific metadata, through inline metadata association, should use that
>>>>triple and not the more general one that would apply to the document as
>>>>a whole? (Or is that something that we need to say in the proposal?
>>>>        
>>>>
>That
>  
>
>>>>inline metadata trumps vocabulary metdata applied to the document as a
>>>>whole? Well, more formally than that but you get the idea.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I don't think anything trumps anything. At the end, all we are doing is
>>>generating triples from all of the places in our package. We can have
>>>      
>>>
>some
>  
>
>>>provenance of where each triple came from, but they can all co-exist in
>>>      
>>>
>a
>  
>
>>>single graph. It really depends on your use, which trumps which. No
>>>normative trumping in our spec.
>>>
>>>However, I'd need more help understanding your scenario because it's a
>>>      
>>>
>bit
>  
>
>>>too high level for me at this point. Could you try first to give us some
>>>sample data you are trying to model and then we can figure out how to
>>>      
>>>
>use
>  
>
>>>the spec to encode it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Well, assume that I have a Bible vocabulary for all the proper names in
>>an English translation of the Bible.
>>
>>That means that I have entries for (not complete):
>>
>>Joseph - advisor to the Pharoah
>>
>>Joseph - a musician in the service of David
>>
>>Joseph - husband of Mary
>>
>>Joseph - father of Jesus (as seen by his contemporaries)
>>
>>I could, of course, represent those subjects with a set of RDF
>>statements that delimit the verses where they appear.
>>    
>>
>
>Right. Something like this, right?
>
><text:p>Text from the Bible....more text<text:span
>m:about="urn:joseph-son-of-jacob" m:property="foaf:name">Joseph</text:span>
>more ...</text:p>
>
>  
>
Yes, but note that requires marking *every* string "Joseph" with the 
<text:span> element.

>>In other words, a set of RDF statements about Joseph -advisor to the
>>Pharoah, plus Gen. 37:1-47:27, so that term will only be interpreted as
>>that Joseph within that verse range.
>>
>>But the problem of having the same string that represents different
>>subjects occurs in texts where that "easy" solution isn't possible.
>>
>>In other words, what if I have two separate vocabularies, one for Cato
>>(the elder) and Cato (the younger). In the context of a scholarly
>>article about Cato (the elder), if I don't do anything, that is the
>>triple(s) that should apply to any mention of "Cato." But, from time to
>>time, I want to mention Cato (the younger) and that should draw metadata
>>from a second vocabulary, perhaps the OCD (Oxford Classical Dictionary),
>>which Bruce has kindly encoded in RDF. ;-)
>>    
>>
>
>This you mean in the manifest file....
>
><odf:ContextFile rdf:about="urn:doc-id" odf:path="context.xml">
>      <patrick:refersToVocabulary rdf:resource="urn:first-vocabulary"/>
></odf:ContextFile>
>
>So an application can first go to the ContextFile and see which is the main
>vocabulary to search when looking for people's names. But then you confuse
>me.. what about a second vocabulary. I'm assuming you are willing to
>specify something at least in the content.xml that points to another
>vocabulary.
>
>  
>
No, an application can look at the manifest first to discover the 
vocabulary that applies to *all* strings in the text, except those that 
have explicit metadata pointers associated with them.

That is I would have metadata associated with strings in content 
*without* having to mark those strings without having to make a 
reference to the metadata from an element surrounding the string or by 
binding a bookmake using xml:id.

Ah, no, I wasn't going to specify something in content.xml that points 
to the 'default' vocabulary. I only have to point out of context.xml 
when I want a particular part of some metadata file to be associated 
with a particular place in the text.

><text:p xml:id="foo">Text...more text<text:span>Cato</text:span> more
>...</text:p>
>
>Then you would add something in RDF/XML that says xml:id="foo" should use a
>second vocabulary. Is that what you want?
>
>It would have been nicer to just put the triple right in the doc with the
>meta field.
>
><text:meta about="" property="p:overrideVocabulary"
>resource="urn:second-vocabulary">
>put your text over here.
></text:meta>
>
>But I think we agreed for now to just use RDF/XML to encode that
>information.
>
>Does this help at all?
>
>  
>
Well, good examples of pointing to metadata but my question is about 
having metadata associated with content without having to do any 
explicit pointing.

That is I have a default vocabulary that is applied to every matching 
string.

I don't think I am doing a good job explaining this. Bruce, are you around?

I will try to work on it over the weekend so I can have an example that 
is formally cast into the right form. Maybe that will help.

Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend!

Patrick


>-Elias
>
>  
>
>>When I said "trump" what I meant was that the more specific metadata,
>>that which is associated inline, is used in preference to the general
>>metadata, which I have associated with the entire file.
>>
>>Think of it as being the same as an inherited attribute value where
>>inheritance is blocked by the specification of a specific attribute
>>value. (Close as I can come to a markup example.)
>>
>>The problem is that I don't know if we should say that in the proposal
>>or if not, how to say that in the metadata.
>>
>>There will be some documents that only use one vocabulary with no
>>conflicts but I suspect that is going to be the exception rather than
>>the rule.
>>
>>John Madden can confirm if that is going to be the case for medical
>>documents, but I suspect it will be true.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>Hope everyone is looking forward to a great weekend!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Lots of home projects. Yeah!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Hopefully not! I have an ISO draft I have been promising for weeks now
>>that is top of the weekend stack! ;-)
>>
>>Hope you are having a great day!
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>Patrick
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Patrick Durusau
>>>>Patrick@Durusau.net
>>>>Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
>>>>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
>>>>Member, Text Encoding Initiative Board of Directors, 2003-2005
>>>>
>>>>Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>--
>>Patrick Durusau
>>Patrick@Durusau.net
>>Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
>>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
>>Member, Text Encoding Initiative Board of Directors, 2003-2005
>>
>>Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

-- 
Patrick Durusau
Patrick@Durusau.net
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
Member, Text Encoding Initiative Board of Directors, 2003-2005

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work! 




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