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Subject: Re: [office] Re: [office-comment] Re: my comments on thenumbering spec proposal discussed by David F. andFlorian R.

Hi Oliver,

your proposal/suggestion/comment seems to violate the statement explicitly made in the ODF spec:
"A list in <text:list> representation could be converted into a list in <text:numbered-paragraph> representation and
vice versa."

I therfore disagree with your proposal/suggestion/comment.


>>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann - Software Engineer - Sun Microsystems <Oliver-Rainer.Wittmann@Sun.COM> 01/09/07 12:14 PM >>>
David Faure wrote:
> On Monday 11 December 2006 17:22, Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
>> Hi,
>> The original ODF list concept is that we have <text:list> elements in the content, and a 
>> list style. Each list has its own numbering. That is, if I have two <text:list> elements 
>> they both start with 1. 
> This seems sensible. Note that it contradicts Oliver's interpretation ("If you want to use the same list
> style for two separate lists, then you have to define for the second list, that the numbering has to restart.")
>> When using <text:list> elements the list styles only specifies the  
>> layout of the list. The lists themselves are identified by <text:list> elements, but not 
>> by the style name. 
>> The only problem we have is that we cannot change the style within a  
>> list. The style:overwrite attribute that has been proposed would solve this.
> ... so you would agree with the style:overwrite attribute being a text:list-item attribute rather than text:list
attribute, right?
> Otherwise you need two <text:list>s to change the style and this breaks the structure.
> E.g. my 1/2/3/A/B example should be modelled as only one text:list, not two.
> Another example would be differently-numbered subsections, like:
> 1.
>   1.1.
>   1.2.
> 2.
>   2.A)
>   2.B)
> In this example it really is just one list, otherwise the numbering will end up being wrong.
> This example also shows why we (koffice) dislike the "define 10 levels in one list style".
> Not all items in this list use the same style. style-override at the item level solves this indeed,
> although it requires that one style is the "normal" one and the other one is the "override"
> With text:numbered-paragraph and one level per list style, the above would simply 6 numbered
> paragraphs pointing to whichever style they want to use.
> ====
> To be fair, if OOo is supposed to be implement text:list correctly, then I'm still very confused
> by the semantics. For instance if I increase the level (e.g. using the tab key) I get two paragraphs
> with the same number, see attached document. For 4 paragraphs of depths of 1/1/2/2, I would 
> expect to get A/B/a/b or A/B/1/2 or A/B/<nothing>/<nothing> or A/B/A/B if the same style is 
> defined for level 2, but certainly not A/B/B/C !?
> Why does ODF define 10 levels in one style, while even the OOo GUI doesn't do that? "Numbering 4"
> is "A) B) C) D)", but doesn't say anything about what happens at level 2 and below.
> Not that I would want it to :) But then I would assume that A) B) is used at level 2 as well, unless
> I select another numbering style for those paragraphs.
>> We later introduced <text:numbered-paragraph> elements. The problem we face here is that 
>> we don't have a <text:list> element, and therefore no way to decide to which list (or 
>> numbering) they belong. One option would be to define that they all belong to the same 
>> numbering, and to add an attribute that starts the numbering at a certain paragraph. Other 
>> options are to re-use the list-style, or to use list-ids. I don't have a clear opinion 
>> what is the best solution, but I think it is a different issue than the one for the list 
>> elements, and we should discuss it independent of it.
> I agree, that the issue is different and should be solved independently. 
> "All belong to the same numbering" is actually more or less what we do in koffice.
> For any numbered paragraph, we go up and find other numbered paragraphs of the same level
> to find out what this paragraph's number is; and any upper-level (or outline) paragraph stops
> the search.
> However the notion of a list-id for a bit more structure sounds nice, and from what I recall,
> MSWord lists also have the equivalent of a list-id, this is where this idea mostly comes from.

Hi all,

ok, my interpretation of the list style is some how OpenOffice.org driven.
I agree that each <text:list> element starts a new list. OpenOffice.org 
uses attribute text:continue-numbering="true" to achieve the 
interpretation, that all lists using the same list style belong together.

I propose that all <text:numbered-paragraph> by default should belong to 
*one* list. Thus, by <text:numbered-paragraph> a list with different 
list styles is possible.

I propose to introduce the attribute text:style-override for the 
<text:list-item> element to support different list styles inside a list 
defined by the <text:list> element.

I propose to introduce the attribute text:list-id for the 
<text:numbered-paragraph> element to define a group of 
<text:numbered-paragraph> element to belong to an own list.

Regards, Oliver.

Sun Microsystems GmbH    Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
Nagelsweg 55             Software Engineer - StarOffice/OpenOffice.org
20097 Hamburg
http://www.sun.de        mailto:oliver-rainer.wittmann@sun.com

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