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Subject: Re: [office] Grid enhancement

Hi Florian,

the grid proposal is one of the proposals that are under discussion, and 
therefore will be on the agenda of the call on Monday.

As promised, I have checked the current possibilities of the ODF 
specification regarding document wide settings:

1. The intended purpose of application settings was that these are 
setting where we assume that they are not understood by other 
applications, and there it therefore seems to be reasonable to add them 
to the schema itself.

2. For most style families (page layouts are actually styles of with the 
family page-style), we have a so called default style, which specifies 
default formatting property values for a certain style family. They are 
used unless they are overwritten by a style itself. We don't have a 
default style for page-layout at the moment.

3. The topmost layout object for which one can currently specify 
formatting properties is the page-layout. There is no layout object 
above that to which we could attach the grid-layout-mode.

So, if we want to be able to specify the grid-layout-mode globally for a 
document, one additional option I see is
- to specify the grid-layout-mode as formatting property for 
page-layouts, and
- to add a default-page-layout-style.

This would allow us to specify the grid-layout-mode the same way as the 
other grid properties (that is, as formatting property), but at the same 
time would allow to specify the value of this formatting property at one 
place for the whole document.

In theory, the grid-layout-mode could be overwritten by a specific page 
style, but I don't think that this is an issue in practice. If we don't 
consider it to be reasonable to mix the two layout-modes in a document 
(and I agree to that - my concern is only related to how the 
grid-layout-mode is stored), then I don't think that someone will ever 
make use of this option. In particular not, if no office application 
provides a way to do so. Of cause, if want to make this explicit, we may 
also specify that the grid-layout-mode can be used only within 

I hope this helps.


Florian Reuter wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> I think you didn't get the argument.
> It is that neither OOXML nor the CSS3 spec I sent you can do handle ODF grids. Such mixing them at a page layout level is a bad idea -- I guess.
> For this reason I want a document wide property which defined that grid mode.
> I'm happy to explain this in the next work call. Will you please put this on the agenda.
> ~Florian
>>>> Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM> 02/16/07 1:18 PM >>>
> Hi Florian,
> thanks for providing the link. While it contains some useful information 
> regarding text grids, I could not find information whether the grid 
> layout mode should be a document wide property, or a page style 
> property. Can you point me to the text you are referring to, or explain 
> why you think a document setting is more compatible with this CSS3 spec 
> than a page style setting would be?
> Thanks
> Michael
> BTW: The CSS3 Text Module was a Candidate Recommendation in 2003, but 
> has been withdrawn in 2004. A rewrite is still in progress. 
> Unfortunately, the specification that would nowadays include the grid 
> specification (text layout) is not available publicly.
> Florian Reuter wrote:
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-css3-text-20030514/#document-grid
>> ~Florian
>>>>> Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM> 02/12/07 1:40 PM >>>
>> Hi Florian,
>> Florian Reuter wrote:
>>> Thanks for the feedback regarding the grid enhancement proposal.
>>> The main question was “why do you use a compatibility option instead of a page style attribute?”
>> Where we a few other questions, but the main concern in fact was that a 
>> compatibility option may be wrong place to describe a 
>> application-independent layout property, regardless whether it applies 
>> to the full document, or only a page style.
>>> The reason is that the objective is to disable the square grid layout mode for the whole document and not only for a certain page style.
>>> We propose to use a “either/or” mechanism instead of a “mixed” way, since that can cause problems in interoperability with OfficeOpenXML and CSS3.0.
>> Can you please provide a link to the CSS3 specification you are 
>> referring to. Thanks.
>> Michael

Michael Brauer, Technical Architect Software Engineering
Sun Microsystems GmbH             Nagelsweg 55
D-20097 Hamburg, Germany          michael.brauer@sun.com
http://sun.com/staroffice         +49 40 23646 500

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