Re: [office] Status of list discussions/Suggestion how to proceed

[Thomas Zander <zander@kde.org>]

On Monday 26 March 2007 11:09, Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg 
wrote:
> If someone has other suggestion how to proceed, please let me know that.
> I will not put the topic on the agenda of our conference call today.

This judgement call means that over 5 weeks after the proposal has been made 
we may vote on it.
As I stated on the conference call two weeks ago; we will never ever get a 
consensus if there is no open dialogue. And with the consistent communication 
break down, I don't think this will ever happen. Specifically;
a) Any question from Florian on the proposal tends to be answered and 
explained, but that answer is never replied to again by Florian.  So no real 
dialogue is started.  On top of that; the same question (already addressed) 
tends to be asked again later by Florian.  Which leads me to conclude the 
answer really did need a followup to lead to a consensus.

b) We still have no idea what the problems are with the existing proposal 
(from Oliver) as Florian still does not tell us the specific problems he has. 
We have seen a number of alternate proposals, but I still fail to get a 
consistent message of what could be wrong with the original proposal.

c) There have been a lot of work done by Oliver and myself (and others) to 
explain the work and to give detailed explanation on what we think is correct 
or wrong about Florians propals.
From Florian we received a document with a list of checkboxes giving 
a "Yes"/"No" opinion on wheather others requirements fit his proposal. There 
has not even been such a "yes/no" opinion on wheather they fit the original 
proposal. What is certainly missing is his thoughts leading to his 
conclusions.  As my science teacher used to say; conclusions without process 
are useless.

d) I, and Oliver suggested to open a dialogue over the phone. This was 
cancelled by Florian as deemed unneeded.

In light of this; I feel that there is nothing to be gained by continuing 
these talks. There is no exchange of ideas, just monologues and we have seen 
no signs that Florian actually understands the proposal that is on the table. 
Making it very hard to talk on a higher level without continuesly questioning 
the basics.


So, can I make a counter suggestion to the TC?
Florian stated he can't support the list-id proposal. To back that up, I 
suggest he gives detailed, real and very specific problems with the proposal 
we have had on the table for 4 weeks now. Any problems stated will be 
discussed and we will find a solution for them.
If there are no objections with the needed detail to talk about them, or there 
is no actual dialogue, we can proceed to vote.
As stated, the proposal has been on the table for 4 weeks now. Creating such a 
list should just be to write down the thoughts already formed in the past 
months. And can't take much time.  I therefor also suggest to set a deadline 
for these objections to make 100% sure we will have a proper solution in 
ODF1.2.  Say, Tomorrow evening?

TC, what say you?
-- 
Thomas Zander

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