Re: [office] Content Regions in ODF

[robert_weir@us.ibm.com]

Sorry, I thought the analogy was clear.
 Separate structure from semantics.  Bob's example of a generic
<marker> element is one approach to this.  This allows for generic
processing.

-Rob

"Florian Reuter" <freuter@novell.com>

05/09/2008 10:46 AM

To	<robert_weir@us.ibm.com>
cc	<bobj@dst.gov.za>, <patrick@durusau.net>, <office@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject	Re: [office] Content Regions in ODF

Hi Rob,

it would really help if you would provide some of your ideas instead of
questions. I'm really trying to understand your point.

E.g. what do you mean with: Think div and CSS?

Thanks a lot,

~Florian


>>> <robert_weir@us.ibm.com> 05/09/08 4:21 PM >>>
For example, we could have a single mechanism for noting the structure
of 
begin/end or arbitrary content that doesn't follow a simple nesting model.
 And then have a way of associating semantics with it.

The way we have it now seems unfactored.   Is there a way we can better
express the structure of the things that Patrick listed with a single 
mechanism, and then give them semantics with a common mechanism. Think
div 
and CSS.

Especially since this type of structure seems core to Word's run-oriented
text model, I expect we'll see more and more requests for adding features
like this in the future.  So getting the core structural aspect of
it 
defined will help us integrate future related proposals as well.

-Rob




"Florian Reuter" <freuter@novell.com> 
05/09/2008 07:39 AM

To
<bobj@dst.gov.za>, <patrick@durusau.net>
cc
<office@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject
Re: [office] Content Regions in ODF






Hi,

in terms of a constructive discussion it would really be great to 
understand not only what you don't want but also what you want.

You say its unnecessary. Can you explain why? What alternative encoding
do 
you have in mind?

So where do you think we should invest our good money ;-)

It would really be great to understand the alternatives 'cause I'm not
a 
big fan the start-/end- stuff either but I'm not aware of  better
alternatives...

Thanks very much,

~Florian


>>> Bob Jolliffe <bobj@dst.gov.za> 05/08/08 8:05 PM >>>
Absolutely agree with the sentiment.  I don't know how we orginally
got 
into this -start -end convention, but it is really ugly and unnecessarily.
 Also agree it is not an odf 1.2 issue, but let us at least flag it as
undesirable and avoid pouring good money after bad.

Regards
Bob
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Durusau" <patrick@durusau.net>
To: "ODF office" <office@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 3:46:54 PM (GMT+0200) Africa/Harare
Subject: [office] Content Regions in ODF

Greetings!

The following is not an ODF 1.2 issue but it is one that I wanted to 
note for the future.

In the discussion of Florian's fieldmark proposal, Rob observed that we
have several mechanisms for marking a region of content in ODF.

Actually I have found seven of them that explicitly use the -start/-end
form for the elements names:

<text:alphabetical-index-mark-start>, 
<text:alphabetical-index-mark-end>, linked by having the same value
in 
the text:id attribute.

<text:bookmark-start>, <text:bookmark-end>, linked by having
the same 
value in the text:name attribute.

<text:change-start>, <text:change-end>, linked by having the
same value 
in the text:change-id attribute.

|<text:index-entry-link-start>, <text:index-entry-link-end>,
Note the 
schema doesn't provide any attribute to bind the two elements together.
(I checked the 1.0, 1.1, and latest draft schemas.)|

<text:reference-mark-start>, <text:reference-mark-end>, linked
by having 
the same value in the text:name attribute.

<text:toc-mark-start>, <text:toc-mark-end>, linked by having
the same 
value in the text:id attribute.

<text:user-index-mark-start>, <text:user-index-mark-end>, linked
by 
having the same value in the text:id attribute.


They all serve different purposes but they do have in common:

1) They mark some region of content in an ODF document

2) They mark that content without regard to the XML structure of the 
document

As Rob suggested earlier, it might be a good idea to think about a 
single mechanism that marks portions of content with some means to 
distinguish the purpose for the marking.

I can easily imagine a point plus -start/-end form of a general element
with a typing attribute that has a canonical set of values established
by the TC and that allows for a string extension so that developers can
extend the types. Thinking that could provide some means for 
experimentation that is prior to the TC actually extending the list of
types with defined semantics.

As I said, not an ODF 1.2 issue but I thought the information might be
useful in the context of the fieldmark discussion.

Hope everyone is having a great day!

Patrick

-- 
Patrick Durusau
patrick@durusau.net
Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)


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