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Subject: Re: [office] tables and ODF 1.2 draft 7-3


Pete,

Can you be more specific about what is meant by "native table support?"

I think that is where I am missing the issue.

I freely grant that the table section needs clarification but I am 
puzzling over what it is missing that you call "native table support."

The pass I just completed on the attributes was to regularize some of 
the language and get an idea of what other changes were going to be 
needed. It in no way represents any conclusion on what should or should 
not appear in the final version of 1.2.

Hope you are at the start of a great week!

Patrick



Pete Brunet wrote:
>
> Regarding 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/28461/OpenDocument-v1.2draft7-3.odt 
>
>
> The text of the is-sub-table section changed slightly, There was no 
> concern about this section.
>
> 19.936 table:is-sub-table
>
> The table:is-sub-table attribute specifies if a nested table is a 
> subtable.
>
> If a table cell only contains a single table but no paragraphs or 
> other content, this table can be specified as subtable. It then 
> occupies the whole cell and no other content can appear in this cell.
>
> The borders of a subtable merge with the borders of the cell that it 
> resides in. A subtable does not have its own style. A subtable is 
> essentially a container for some additional table rows that integrate 
> seamlessly with the parent table.
>
> A nested table that is not a specified to be a subtable appears as a 
> table within a table, that is, it has borders distinct from those of 
> the parent cell and respects the padding of the parent cell.
>
> Ed. Note: The examples have been removed, since they implied that 
> is-sub-table is appropriate for simulating row- and colspan.
>
> The text in section E.3 Tables in Presentations has not changed and 
> thus Rich's issue with the TC remains open.  Rich's note from May 10 
> follows this note.
>
> E.3.Tables in Presentations
>
> Users importing non-OpenDocument slides that contain tables need 
> access to the table structure via their assistive technology. 
> Therefore tables imported into an OpenDocument application from 
> another file format must have their structure preserved, and when 
> saved as OpenDocument should be saved as as embedded spreadsheets.
>
> *Pete Brunet*
>                                                                          
> IBM Accessibility Architecture and Development
> 11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004, Austin, TX 78758
> Voice: (512) 838-4594, Cell: (512) 689-4155
> Ionosphere: WS4G
>
>
>
> *Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM*
>
> 05/10/2008 07:28 AM
>
> 	
> To
> 	office@lists.oasis-open.org, Pete Brunet/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> cc
> 	office-accessibility@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject
> 	Re: [office-accessibility] tables and latest ODF specLink 
> <Notes://D03NM116/8525604600452FB8/BD053B46B119C67A8525643000742B16/15204990CE2C958B8625744400795ED5> 
>
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
> ODF TC:
>
> In Pete's review of the current internal TC draft of the ODF 1.2 
> specification it is unclear that native table support has been added 
> to presentations in ODF 1.2. This is something
> the accessibility SC had asked for in 1.1 but was being deferred until 
> 1.2.
>
> Native table support in presentations may be indicated in the schema 
> but that has not been provided in the current release of the 
> specification.
> Since access to structural information is so important, especially for 
> tables, would members of the TC indicate when this will be provided
> for in the 1.2 specification?
>
> Pete,I responded to your note below. Thanks for the analysis.
>
> Thank you,
> Rich
>
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
> Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review  Board
> blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
>
> Pete Brunet/Austin/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 05/09/2008 05:29:10 PM:
>
> >
> > In the v7-02 ODF spec at http://www.oasis-open.
> > org/committees/download.php/28121/OpenDocument-v1.2-v7-02.odt I
> > found the following items of interest to our group:
> >
> > 18.921 table:is-sub-table (Note the last sentence from the editor.)
> > If a table cell only contains a single table but no paragraphs or
> > other content, this table can be specified as subtable. It then
> > occupies the whole cell and no other content can appear in this cell.
> > The borders of a subtable merge with the borders of the cell that it
> > resides in. A subtable does not have its own style. A subtable is
> > essentially a container for some additional table rows that
> > integrate seamlessly with the parent table.
> > A nested table is turned into a subtable with the attribute table:
> > is-sub-table that is attached to the table element. A nested table
> > that is not a specified to be a subtable appears as a table within a
> > table, that is, it has borders distinct from those of the parent
> > cell and respects the padding of the parent cell.
> > Ed. Note: The examples have been removed, since they implied that
> > is-sub-table is appropriate for simulating row- and colspan.
> >
> > Appendix E.3 Tables in Presentations
> > Users importing non-OpenDocument slides that contain tables need
> > access to the table structure via their assistive technology.
> > Therefore tables imported into an OpenDocument application from
> > another file format must have their structure preserved, and when
> > saved as OpenDocument should be saved as as embedded spreadsheets.
> >
> > Is  there anything else I should look for?
> >
>
> Yes, what this tells me is that the current 1.2 specification, as 
> written, does
> not clearly articulate that native table support is in presentations. 
> What this says is that in order
> to render a table you essentially need to do what was done in 1.1 
> which is to treat the
> table as an embedded spreadsheet (such as through OLE embedding) which 
> would be accessible.
> This was inconsistent with what we had been told should be in 1.2. 
> What makes this more difficult is
> we don't have a schema to verify. The Schema should indicate if native 
> table support is provided.
>
> > p.s. The link to our guidelines is bad here:
> >
>
> If we had native table support there should be no need for this. If 
> native table support is not added then I agree
> we would need to correct the link.
>  
> > Appendix E.4 Further Guidelines
> > Additional, non-normative Accessibility Guidelines are available at:
> > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/office-accessibility/guidelines.
> >
> > Pete Brunet
> >                                                                     
>      
> > IBM Accessibility Architecture and Development
> > 11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004, Austin, TX 78758
> > Voice: (512) 838-4594, Cell: (512) 689-4155
> > Ionosphere: WS4G

-- 
Patrick Durusau
patrick@durusau.net
Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)



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