RE: [office] "document template"

["Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>]

A case that interests me is what happens if the template is changed after a document that depended on it is produced?  What if a template of the same name exists at the consumer who opens a document that was produced from a template of the same name (the famous normal.dot comes to mind)?

None of these behaviors or anything else is addressed in the specification, and I'm not sure that it can be.

What I'm fairly confident of is, if you open a template it will often populate an initial anonymous document that may or may not be considered touched.  That is, if it is closed the new document either vanishes or treatment is the same as attempting to close an unsaved document that has no name yet.  It is difficult to assume even that much, but we can on the OIC as a typical case to give advice for (perhaps), if not on the ODF TC.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Durusau [mailto:patrick@durusau.net] 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 06:02
To: dennis.hamilton@acm.org
Cc: 'ODF TC List'
Subject: Re: [office] "document template"

Dennis,

Agreed, but that still leaves the non-template ODF document in the air. 
And what happens if a template has content and is selected after content 
has been added to a non-template ODF document.

Hope you are having a great day!

Patrick

On 07/12/2011 01:07 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> I think a document template is a kind of document, not something found in a document.
>
> Rationale:
>
> There are separate MIME types for template documents and the following are considered in the conformance clauses of Part 1,
>
> 2.2.1B allows for a document that has a styles.xml and no content.xml (and vice versa).
>
> 2.2.3 OpenDocument Text Document shall be a conforming OpenDocument Document that has, among other things, an associated mimetype that is one of "application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text", "application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text-template" or "application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text-master".
>
> Note that none of these have very many words about them and the difference between a template and a non-template document is not explained at all other than the reference to a template in<office:document-meta>.  They all have an<office:text>  element in their<office:body>  element.
>
> It is not clear what happens when there is no<office:body>  element (i.e., there is no content.xml file).
>
> This lumping continues: there are template mimetypes for spreadsheet documents, drawing documents, presentation documents, chart documents, and image documents.
>
> In Appendix C (MIME Types and File Name Extensions) there is also formula document template and a text-web document serving as a template for HTML documents, but neither of these occur in the specification itself.
>
> We also need to deal with the fact that application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.database (not .base) has been registered for some time.  We should either fix the document or do another MIME type registration for .base.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Durusau [mailto:patrick@durusau.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 08:11
> To: ODF TC List
> Subject: [office] "document template"
>
> Greetings!
>
> Before I create an issue for this I wanted to get some feedback on the
> issue and its possible resolution.
>
> In 19.796.8<text:template-name>  we specify information to be displayed
> about a document template. But, we never define a document template.
>
> Contrast that with the definitions of index templates in Chapter 8 for
> example.
>
> Interoperability would be increased by defining what is meant by
> "document template," other than as something that can be pointed to and
> named. (xlink:href attribute on<meta:template>  and xlink:title on
> <meta:template>, respectively)
>
> At first I thought we could use template definitions like we do with
> index entries but those are relatively simple when compared to a
> document template (or what I imagine a document template to be).
>
> Then I thought we could simply say that<meta:template>  element
> attributes have to point at conformant ODF documents as templates.
>
> But if we do that, then what happens to the ODF document we are "in,"
> that is where the pointing happens? Do we insert the document template
> document at a point of insertion? Does it start at the top of the file?
> Is the result some merging of the styles, etc. of the first document and
> the document template? If so, by what rules?
>
> Part of the problem is that there isn't (to me anyway) a meaningful
> distinction between an ODF document and an ODF document being used as a
> document template. At one point in time templates were structurally
> different from documents but not any more.
>
> Which of course crosses all the master-styles stuff as well.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1) Should we simply lose all the document template language and
> pointers? Reasoning that you can simply start off with an ODF document
> that has pre-defined contents and styles, what some might have called a
> "template."
>
> Adv. Avoids the merging of styles/formatting issues, which might be
> difficult to define with any precision.
>
> DisAdv. Would eliminate some elements and attributes, possibly causing
> backwards compatibility issues.
>
> 2) If we keep it, how do we fashion rules for inter-mixing present
> document and "template" rules?
>
> Suggestions/comments?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Hope everyone is having a great day!
>
> Patrick
>


-- 
Patrick Durusau
patrick@durusau.net
Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)

Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net
Homepage: http://www.durusau.net
Twitter: patrickDurusau


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