Re: [office] ODF 1.2 part 1: radio-button element form:radio attribute form:name exception

[Regina Henschel <regina.henschel@libreoffice.org>]

Hi Michael,

I do not understand, why there should be a problem at all, details inline.

Michael Stahl schrieb:
> does anybody know if there is an implementation out there that actually
> implements this particular exception in ODF 1.2 section 13.5.18 ?
>
> > 13.5.18 <form:radio>
> > [...]
> > Radio buttons are defined to belong to the same group if they have
> > the same control name, as specified by their form:name attribute.

That is implemented in OpenOffice.org at least since version 2.4.3. I 
have not got older ones to look it up. In OOo1.1.5 (sxw) it is 
implemented using the form:name attribute too, only that the form:radio 
is a child of form:control and the form:name attribute is on the 
form:control and not on the form:radio.

> this handling of the form:name attribute on form:radio differs from the
> handling of this attribute on any other form element.  it is not even
> mentioned in the attribute description, which is confusing.
>
> > 19.294 form:name
> > The form:name attribute specifies the name of a form or control
> > element.
> > Note: This may be used to give a form or control element an identity,
> > which is can be used for scripting or for submitting the content of
> > controls.

For example if form:name="Gender" and one radio button has the 
form:value="male" and the other form:value="female", when submitting the 
form content, the recipient would get e.g. the information 
'Gender="male"'. The special in radio buttons is only, that the control 
is build from several elements.

The purpose of form:name is not to identify a special element, but to 
identify the value when submitting the form content.

> the reason why i'm asking is that OpenOffice.org 2.0 did not implement
> the exception; form:name on form:radio is handled as on any other form
> element.

I don't believe that OOo2.0 is different. OOo1.1.5 groups the 
radio-buttons via form:name and OOo2.4.3 too. If OOo2.0 does it really 
different, I would consider it a bug in OOo2.0. Do you know a download 
for OOo2.0?

It is the same way radio-buttons are grouped in HTML, so it is not 
surprising to me.

> Lionel (the LibreOffice database application maintainer) is of the
> considered opinion that there are existing use cases with scripting that
> are currently supported that require the individual radio buttons to
> have distinct names, so with the current specification we would need to
> add a "form:real-name" attribute to handle these use cases.

There is no need for a new attribute. To get individual form controls, 
you can use the form:id attribute in file. It is the purpose of that 
attribute. How to get it in an implementation depends on the model in 
that implementation. I don't know the shortest way, but in AOO API 
DrawPage.getByIndex > Control (the element) > Parent (the form) will work.

> so from our point of view it would be ideal to adapt the ODF
> specification to the existing implementation, unless of course there are
> other applications that have actually implemented the (somewhat
> surprising) exception as written in 13.5.18.

Can you explore, why you think, that OpenOffice and LibreOffice do _not_ 
work as specified?

> of course it is also necessary to group radio buttons; this could be
> done by a new "form:group-name" attribute.  (there was actually a
> proposal to do that which i've sadly closed last year, because
> unfortunately it was a pretty useless 1 sentence proposal that lacked
> any rationale.)

I'm confused. I do not see, where you have got problems.

Kind regards
Regina