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Subject: Re: [office] ODF 1.2 part 1: radio-button element form:radio attribute form:name exception

Hi Michael,

I do not understand, why there should be a problem at all, details inline.

Michael Stahl schrieb:

does anybody know if there is an implementation out there that actually
implements this particular exception in ODF 1.2 section 13.5.18 ?

13.5.18 <form:radio>
Radio buttons are defined to belong to the same group if they have
the same control name, as specified by their form:name attribute.

That is implemented in OpenOffice.org at least since version 2.4.3. I have not got older ones to look it up. In OOo1.1.5 (sxw) it is implemented using the form:name attribute too, only that the form:radio is a child of form:control and the form:name attribute is on the form:control and not on the form:radio.

this handling of the form:name attribute on form:radio differs from the
handling of this attribute on any other form element.  it is not even
mentioned in the attribute description, which is confusing.

19.294 form:name
The form:name attribute specifies the name of a form or control
Note: This may be used to give a form or control element an identity,
which is can be used for scripting or for submitting the content of

For example if form:name="Gender" and one radio button has the form:value="male" and the other form:value="female", when submitting the form content, the recipient would get e.g. the information 'Gender="male"'. The special in radio buttons is only, that the control is build from several elements.

The purpose of form:name is not to identify a special element, but to identify the value when submitting the form content.

the reason why i'm asking is that OpenOffice.org 2.0 did not implement
the exception; form:name on form:radio is handled as on any other form

I don't believe that OOo2.0 is different. OOo1.1.5 groups the radio-buttons via form:name and OOo2.4.3 too. If OOo2.0 does it really different, I would consider it a bug in OOo2.0. Do you know a download for OOo2.0?

It is the same way radio-buttons are grouped in HTML, so it is not surprising to me.

Lionel (the LibreOffice database application maintainer) is of the
considered opinion that there are existing use cases with scripting that
are currently supported that require the individual radio buttons to
have distinct names, so with the current specification we would need to
add a "form:real-name" attribute to handle these use cases.

There is no need for a new attribute. To get individual form controls, you can use the form:id attribute in file. It is the purpose of that attribute. How to get it in an implementation depends on the model in that implementation. I don't know the shortest way, but in AOO API DrawPage.getByIndex > Control (the element) > Parent (the form) will work.

so from our point of view it would be ideal to adapt the ODF
specification to the existing implementation, unless of course there are
other applications that have actually implemented the (somewhat
surprising) exception as written in 13.5.18.

Can you explore, why you think, that OpenOffice and LibreOffice do _not_ work as specified?

of course it is also necessary to group radio buttons; this could be
done by a new "form:group-name" attribute.  (there was actually a
proposal to do that which i've sadly closed last year, because
unfortunately it was a pretty useless 1 sentence proposal that lacked
any rationale.)

I'm confused. I do not see, where you have got problems.

Kind regards

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