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Subject: chat notes - ODF teleconference - 21 August 2017
Greetings! Our chat notes from the ODF Teleconference - 21 August 2017 Activity last week: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE/?selectedTab=com.atlassian.jira.jira-projects-plugin:summary-panel Continue graphics issue discussion https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-3928 chart position without axis labels - 3D charts - pos/size for plot area and coordinate-region https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-3930 Broken sentence in 20.226 presentation:display-date-time https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-3931 Problems in 20.226 presentation:display-date-time thomas: I am on the phone. Not sure if you could hear me. We have quorum <coordinate-region> and 3D charts Regina proposes additions: If the <chartlot-area> element contains a <chart:coordinate-region> element, only the reduced content as described in section 11.x is used and the position and size values of the <chart:coordinate-region> element are used instead of those from the <chartlot-area>. Michael Stahl: by the way, in the web-chat you can click "Settings" and "Hide Smiley Faces" to disable this annoyance 11:5 The plot area may be displayed as an 3D scene as specified in section 10.5.2. All 3D attributes that can be applied to the <dr3d:scene> element can be applied to the <chartlot-area> element. This includes the dr3d:transform attribute that specifies the rotation of the three-dimensional plot area. 10.5.2 The <chartlot-area> element may contain a <dr3d:light> element as specified in section 10.5.3. Michael: thanks Jos: does this mean that the labels become disconnected from the axis? Regina: no, it only is about the size and position attributes. a 3d scene is a like a picture and the size and position say how large the picture / projection is Regina: so the picture has to be scaled to the desired size. Regina: when you only have the plot-area, then the reference size includes the labels Regina: when you have a coordinate region, then the reference size excludes the labels Jos: I understand, it's the right approach Jos: I was referring to https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office/201708/msg00016.html We need a new issue for the second point in that mail about the sizes of 3d scenes. Regina will put this text in a new issue. Andreas: about the 3d scene Andreas: what does uniform scaling mean? Regina: you have content in 3d, you make a projection and obtain a 2d picture Regina: you have to bring this 2d projection to the canvas Jos: And that is where you need the scaling Andreas: I still do not understand the 'uniform' part Andreas: depending on the projection the scaling might not be uniform, esp to meet the width and height constraints Andreas: what is the intent of 'uniform' in that phrasing Andreas: take a rectangular box, that is rotated, now an object that needs to have a projection fit in a viewport Andreas: what is uniform in that scaling? Andreas: I understand as uniform as having the same scaling in all directions Regina: it has to be scaled such that it touches the edge of the viewport Regina: it does not need to fill out both width and height Andreas: so saying that it should 'fit the viewport' would suffice Andreas: why am I getting a wider viewport as needed Jos: The box is meant to constrain the place where the chart can go out Andreas: if we say shall instead of should we might break the normal behaviour Jos: Andreas, can you describe the current behaviour Andreas: if you widen the viewport, the projection will change Regina: you want that the producer write the tight box around the projection image? Andreas: that is how i would understand uniform scaling Regina: it might be that the actual rendering in an application does not fit Regina: I've to give a description that would allow the sizing/drawing/dimension in an application to vary but would constrain the aspect ratio and size of the coordinate-region of the chart Jos: perhaps we can say that the image should be fitted but without skewing or distorting the image Jos: SVG has https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/coords.html#PreserveAspectRatioAttribute this attribute for this situation Jos: The SVG specifcation also talks about 'uniform scaling' https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/images/coords/PreserveAspectRatio.png Jos: Exact text: "it is desirable that uniform scaling be used for the purposes of preserving the aspect ratio of the graphics." Jos: a possible improvement: "producers shall use uniform scaling to fit the *project of the scene* to the viewport." Thorsten: ain't the more precise word 'isotrophic scaling' here? Andreas: it does not matter where we put the adjustability, we should not say 'fitting to the viewport', if the width is smaller then is the image in the middle, the left or the right Andreas: we should explictly say that it should be centered Regina: it should be fitted centered into the viewport. 'into' rather than 'to' Andreas: The images showing the possible fittings as preserveAspectRatioAttribute handle all the possibilities Andreas: the current text seems to suggest xMinYMin sorry, error by jos: xMidyMid Jos: would it be reasonable to have any behavior other than xMidYMid? note: we mean 'meet' which is the default Jos: any rotation would reduce the size of the projection Andreas: that depends on the initial shape Jos: if you rotate exactly around an axis You create protrusions by rotation which have to go back into the box which means scaling down Jos: you'll never get a scaling larger than the 2d scaling Jos: Maybe the current behavior is to not scale at all Regina: in LibreOffice, the chart will scale up or down when you are rotating it Jos: for scene objects in LibreOffice the box expands and shrinks when rotating Regina: for charts this is different, this is required, because the periphery of the chart stays the same Regina: the draw:frame stays the same Jos: but for other scenes the draw:frame does change in size Regina: yes "Producers shall use uniform scaling to fit the image to the viewport. " "Producers shall use uniform scaling to center the maximum image into the viewport." "Producers shall use uniform scaling to center the maximum image inside the viewport. This part should only be for charts. Regina: yes. Andreas: the text should concern everything Andreas: The increase in size while manipulating the image is a UI behaviour. Andreas J Guelzow: bye We can take up the pos/size of the plot area next week. Meeting adjourned.