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Subject: Chat log, 26 March 2018


The ODF TC chat log for 26 March 2018!

Next meeting: 9 April 2018.

Hope everyone is at the start of a great week!



anonymous morphed into Thorsten
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anonymous morphed into Patrick
Thorsten: Hi!
Andras Timar 2: Hi
Patrick: Next Meeting Reminder: April 9, 2018 - No meeting next Monday.
Patrick: Issues for today:
Patrick: 5. Issue for 2018-03-26

a. SVN for Workflow (assuming Jos is available)

b. Regina's formatting terms proposal (mailing list, https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/201803/msg00020.html ) read and contribute.
Patrick: BTW, Regina spotted that my example workflow document is more correct than the commit I made for the same issue. Thanks Regina! Will correct and make another commit.
Regina Henschel: Hi all, I cannot be in the call, because my telephone line is defect. But I will follow the chat.
Andreas J Guelzow: We need to decide whether we are having a meeting on Easter Monday (holiday here in Canada)
Andreas J Guelzow: Ah I see, no meeting next Monday
Patrick: Quorum!
Patrick: Changes or additions to the agenda? (Regina?(
Regina Henschel: No.
Patrick: Jos isn't here, should we still discuss the example and workflow generally?
Regina Henschel: Yes.
Regina Henschel: Your example with change tracking on, is for me best suggestion.
Patrick: Thanks!
Regina Henschel: If you look in the documents folder, the workflow for 1.2 was similar.
Patrick: Thorsten, could we consider flat ODF as the respository format
Patrick: Regina, yes, that was the workflow for ODF 1.2
Patrick: One reason I favor the example is anyone can check the current state of the document, both accepted and pending changes, with a list of the JIRA issues in the change log.
Regina Henschel: No flat please, because pictures are base64 encoded. And I see some problems in change tracking in LO; cannot switch to AOO then, because AOO does not know flat format.
Patrick: Thorsten says diff between flat ODF file and odt file isn't all that significant for end users
Patrick: Regina notes a difficulty with flat b/c of images and AOO doesn't know the flat format.
Regina Henschel: Flat format looses settings of MathML, so not usable for formula part.
Thorsten: ah drats
Patrick: OK, looks like Flat format is out for our purposes.
Thorsten: but then it makes merging hard, i.e. manual ...
Thorsten: ...at least on the .odt level
Patrick: Well, but if we use change tracking and drafts 001, 002, 003, it is true that you have to consult each working draft but, all the changes are marked and even when accepted, still reside in the change log at the end of each document.
Regina Henschel: You can re-examine the changes by comparing the document before and after. It generates a list similar to original change tracking.
Patrick: Thorsten says to go with the prior ODF 1.2 method, worked in the past.
Patrick: Any objections?
Regina Henschel: No.
Patrick: Ok, switching to ODF 1.2 change tracking process for next draft. - prior to April 9, 2018.
Patrick: Regina's formatting terms proposal
Patrick: page-vertical
Patrick: Should we create names for the parts identified? We can reference the diagram but is there a common name for area 1 of page vertical?
Patrick: Same question for 2 and 4, the top and bottom respectfully of header content
Regina Henschel: Area 1 is sometimes called "page margin", but that is confusing, because it is different from the area of fo:margin attribute.
Andreas J Guelzow: If the height of the header is fixed using svg:height, which of 2,3,4 are affected.
Regina Henschel: Andreas: That depends on style:dynamic-spacing="true"
Patrick: The style:dynamic-spacing attribute specifies whether the header or footer grows into the
space between the page body and the header or footer before the height of the page body
becomes smaller.
Patrick: But I'm not sure that answers Andreas' question.
Patrick: If the header is fixed and the sum is greater, then what?
Patrick: How do the sub-parts of height adjust?\
Regina Henschel: Cannot answer immediately, have to try it.
Patrick: Need rule for totaling 2 and 4 and height of header content - how to fit them into a fixed height, yes fo:margin-bottom gives way but what if that isn't enough?
Regina Henschel: LibreOffice shows an overflow indicator in the content area.
Patrick: Andreas, if header content becomes larger, then just clips.
Patrick: OK, that works for fixed height but what is the fate of 2 and 4?
Patrick: could say (not a proposal) that header content can be up to fix by svg:height and if less than svg:height, the remaining space is shared by areas 2 and 4 -
Patrick: prioritizes content over the other areas
Regina Henschel: LibreOffice keeps them and shrinks the content area
Patrick: Or, we could say it the other way and follow LO
Patrick: Don't know about Word in a similar situation - Aarti
Regina Henschel: Keeping is difficult, because you would need to distinguish left and right, although only the shorthand form might be given in the document file.
Regina Henschel: Keeping content area I mean is difficult
Patrick: Left and right? Do you mean pages?
Regina Henschel: No. All border, margin and padding have a form like "border-left" and a shorthand form with only "border", which is then for all four sides.
Patrick: ok
Patrick: Excel has multiline header extend into the body - Andreas
Regina Henschel: Word in OOXML has a very different handling for header area and borders. Import and Export to/from ODF is never full compatible.
Patrick: at top of the area
Patrick: meeting adjourned

Patrick Durusau
Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)

Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net
Homepage: http://www.durusau.net
Twitter: patrickDurusau 

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