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Subject: Notes 15 June 2020
Greetings, Notes from today's meeting appear below. Hope everyone is at the start of a great week! Patrick ******************************* Patrick: 1. Dial-In, Roll Call, Determination of Quorum and Voting Rights 2. Motion (simple majority): Approve the Agenda 3. Motion (simple majority): Approve minutes of 8 June 2020 (below) 4. ODF Later issues (Preference to current TC members and cycling through their issues so no one is on the spot for all of them in a meeting), btw, limiting the search to open/deferred issues counts 134: https://issues.oasis-open.org/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20OFFICE%20AND%20status%20in%20(Open%2C%20Deferred)%20AND%20fixVersion%20in%20(%22ODF%201.4%22%2C%20ODF-Next)%20ORDER%20BY%20reporter%20ASC ) 5. Resolving the manifest schema issue without another public review. Specify to the TC admin that the only change is reflected in https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4046, which was not an ODF TC decision but a clerical omission. Starts another electronic ballot on approval as TC Specification. 6. Roadmap from either our current draft or csd03 (https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/67286/odf1.3-csd03.zip) to OASIS standard (Svante asked about this and there is no useful graphic from OASIS that captures the process. The attached document is itself a summary of the steps, with several unlisted paths.) 7. BTW, some questions have been asked about the completeness of minutes of our meetings. At the start of every call I ask if there are changes or additions. Even better would be to enter any corrections while the meeting is ongoing. I'm not shy about sharing the chat room! 8. Other issues? 9. Adjournment ***** Changes or additions welcome! Hope everyone is at the start of a great week! Patrick ************************************************* Patrick: We have quorum. Patrick: Agenda - approved by consent Patrick: Minutes from 11 May 2020 - approved by consent - Patrick: 5. Holidays for the rest of 2020 - 2021 Patrick: US Labor Day - 7 September 2020 Patrick: Columbus 12 Oct 2020 Michael Stahl: none in DE for rest of 2020 Patrick: 22 Nov. 2020 - for Thanksgiving Patrick: 21st and 28th of December Patrick: 7 Sept, 12 Oct, 22 Nov - Patrick: Holidays thus far for 2020 7 Sept., 12 Oct., 23 Nov., 28th Dec. - Patrick: Approved by consent Patrick: 6. Github - odf - Patrick: who to list maintainers? Svante Schubert: Some from the TC, Michael and I might volunteer Svante Schubert: Because we are using GitHub for ODF toolkit Svante Schubert: And I would suggest to name the reprository odf-tc or odftc. As it is related to ODF and TC the TC makes sense in the default name. Svante Schubert: I stumbled over another example: https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/releases/tag/es2020 The repro name here is ecma262. Patrick: Svante and Michael Stahl as maintainers - volunteers Svante Schubert: "odf-tc" Patrick: with no objection odf-tc Patrick: Regina - wants something for tools - xslt - scripts - Svante Schubert: Regina: We want something for tools. Patrick: under the top level repository - tools Svante Schubert: Michael and me come up with a directory structure suggestion for GitHub Patrick: To post to mailing list for discussion Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4073 Patrick: (there is a typo in the agenda, 4047 should read: office-4074) Patrick: Sorry, not an error at all! https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4047 Regina Henschel: page-content-bottom determines a base for the value given by "from-top" of 20.397 Patrick: office-4073 for - ODF 1.4 accepted Michael Stahl: loext:vertical-rel in schema proposal has wrong namespace Patrick: opened in JIRA, awaiting draft from Regina Patrick: Accepted and awaiting final proposal Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4047 Patrick: default should be set to true Svante Schubert: The default value true should be added. Patrick: Svante - need to define what overlapping means? Svante Schubert: The semantic of 'overlapping' might be a good to define more precisly (with examples) Regina Henschel: 20.181 Patrick: in ODF 1.3 Svante Schubert: https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/cs01/part3-schema/OpenDocument-v1.3-cs01-part3-schema.html#__RefHeading__1419776_253892949 Patrick: Office-4047 for ODF 1.4 - accepted - specific proposal to follow on mailing list Patrick: Empty cell discussion - deferred because Andreas is absent - note for tracking. Patrick: Status update regarding ODF 1.3 manifest schema issue Regina Henschel: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4046 Michael Stahl: i don't think it's required for us to fix this in ODF 1.3 because this pattern is only used by one attribute and i'm not aware of an application that uses a value corresponding to this QName pattern Michael Stahl: the attribute is manifestreferred-view-mode Patrick: Ascertain status on adoption of ODF 1.3 for next week - Michael Stahl: PowerPoint supports the value "presentation-slide-show" which is separate from QName pattern Regina Henschel: To add to the agenda:https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-3768 , https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4073 Patrick: We have quorum Svante Schubert: No objections to add aboves two issues to the agenda! Patrick: Add Office-3768 and Office-4073 - by consent Patrick: Agenda approved by consent - Patrick: Minutes from June 8, 2020 - approved by consent - Patrick: Svante suggests that we post a link to the email archive for the minutes instead of reposting Patrick: Alfred talk about status? Yes, on the agenda Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-3768 Patrick: 4.7 Empty Cell terminology Regina Henschel: 13. May Patrick: Regina's solution: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/202005/msg00020.html Svante Schubert: The history to empty cell was when isBlank is true, it should be as well an "empty Cell" Svante Schubert: isBlank is true, if there is calcuable content, so we have "only" define which content is calcuable and which not? Patrick: From Regina's proposal: The value type of each of these elements shall be specified. The default value type is void. If the value type is neither string nor void, the corresponding Value Attribute(s) (Table 14 - Value attributes) shall contain the value(s) of the element. If the attribute is used for a table cell and the visual representation differs from the value of the element, the cell element shall have one <textï> child element, which contains the visible representation. If the value type is string and the office:string-value attribute is not present and the attribute is not used for a table cell, then the element content defines the value. If the value type is string and the attribute is used for a table cell and the table cell has one <textï> child element, which character content 6.1.1 is the value of the element, then the office:string-value attribute may be omitted. Svante Schubert: Could we take one step back, what is not calcuable content: Like an attached chart within an XML is not caluable. Svante Schubert: Regina: Office annotations and any kind of graphic objects Patrick: Empty cell 4.7 as proposed by Regina: he technical term empty cell is used in this part of the specification in defining functions and expressions. The technical term empty cell stands for a cell with attribute office:value-type="void" (19.389 in part 3 of the specification). Note: An empty cell can still have child elements, for example shapes or annotations, but those are not considered for calculations. Note: The section 9.1.4 table:table-cell in part 3 of the specification specifies restrictions for cell content in tables in spreadsheets. Svante Schubert: "Empty cells" should be shown without content! Patrick: Andreas - if annotation added to cell in spreadsheet, calculation should not change. Patrick: Regina - want a distinction in spreadsheets of what you can calculate on and what you cannot - Patrick: Andreas - empty string looks very much like nothing Patrick: Need to be clear if empty string or nothing Andreas Guelzow: my headset just went out of juice, be back in a moment. Svante Schubert: I do not like to have an office:value-type on all content cells. This is boilerplate. Patrick: Another item from Regina's proposal: The office:value-type attribute specifies the value-type of a table cell (<table:change-track-table-cell>, <table:covered-table-cell> and <table:table-cell>), a text field (<text:expression>, <text:user-field-decl>, <text:variable-decl>, <text:variable-input>and <text:variable-set>), or a form property (<form:list-value> and <formïroperty>). It specifies a default value type of database columns and database column definitions (<db:column>12.35 and <db:column-definition>12.40). The value type of each of these elements shall be specified. The default value type is void. Patrick: Svante wants to define the conditions for void - Regina responds we are doing writer tables and spreadsheets Patrick: The shall applies to all object elements - not writing it is simply void. Svante Schubert: I want to omit as much the office:value-type as possible, going to write a follow-up email trying to draft/summarize why I suggest after the call. Svante Schubert: Andreas aske me to oversee a text proposal, too Patrick: Move this discussion to mailing list - Andreas asks Svante to write something up to see how it wroks Svante Schubert: yes sure Patrick: Office-4073 - Regina - there are general problems in vertical relations and one is the term string - and we have vertical positions to list and numbers - and there are character, text and line as reference areas - Patrick: Regina- what do applications differ between character, text and line? any application with visual difference char, text and line? Svante Schubert: @Patrick: Where should ODF implementers send to the filled out template? You stated once an OASIS template of ODF 1.3 implementors: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office/202001/msg00008.html Regina Henschel: 20.397 style:vertical-pos and 20.398 style:vertical-rel Svante Schubert: Patrick: ODF TC member to the list, otherwise to the tc-comment-list! Svante Schubert: Patrick: we have to vote on the implementor, if we agree on the implementation! Patrick: Patrick - send implementation statement instruction to list -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau
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