Re: [oic] Review of ISO/IEC JTC Interoperabilty Considerations

[robert_weir@us.ibm.com]

Personally I don't think we get much from JTC1 Directives in terms of 
guidance, best practices or illustrative examples concerning 
interoperability.  They are hardly at the forefront of work in this area. 
We are better off looking at what the W3C does, what the Web Standards 
Project did, or even what other OASIS TC's do.  Pick your top five IT 
standards where you think interoperability is good in practice. Ask 
yourself, how did they get there and what can we learn from the path they 
took.  We can learn from successes as well as failures.

Of course, I'm not adverse to taking good ideas from anywhere we can find 
them, but I find the JTC1 Directives to be full of platitudes about 
interoperability, but short on any concrete best practices.  If JTC1 has 
anything useful, you would need to search for it deeper in some technical 
report.  You're not going to find it in the Directives.  That document is 
just cobbled together, primarily by standards bureaucrats with little 
technical experience in this area.

-Rob

"Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote on 06/09/2009 
01:12:11 PM:


> 
> Subject:
> 
> [oic] Review of ISO/IEC JTC Interoperabilty Considerations
> 
> I suggest that we  review the interoperability-related considerations 
that
> are found in the ISO/IEC JTC1 directives that apply to submission of ODF 
as
> an ISO/IEC International Standard. 
> 
> Rob Weir provides this reference: ISO/IEC JTC 1 Directives, (5th Ed., v.
> 3.0, 5 April 2007) pg. 145,
> <http://www.jtc1sc34.org/repository/0856rev.pdf>.  I find it valuable to
> take a guided search through the few occurrences of "interoperability" 
in
> the document.
> 
> I recommend this review for the following purposes:
> 
>  1. Understanding what the interoperability considerations at JTC1 are, 
and
> how they apply to a submission such as ODF as an International Standard
> 
>  2. Seeing what value, if any, the JTC1 directives have in how we 
approach
> guidance and inspection/testing methodologies.  I am thinking in terms 
of
> any OIC-provided feedback and recommendations that support the ODF TC in
> having the ODF specifications satisfy JTC1 criteria related to
> interoperability (to the degree that their satisfaction matters as part 
of
> joint arrangements between OASIS and JTC1).
> 
>  - Dennis
> 
> MORE DETAILS AND PERSONAL ANALYSIS
> 
> I am making this recommendation based on an exchange that just occured 
on
> the oic-comment list.  Here is more thinking about the subject:
> 
>  1. For the purpose of ascertaining how interoperability considerations 
are
> delimited in the JTC1 Directives (ISO/IEC JTC 1 Directives, (5th Ed., v.
> 3.0, 5 April 2007), I find it useful to browse through the document 
using a
> search on "interoperability," paying attention to the context and any
> statements of policy that pertain at each occurrence.  There are a 
moderate
> number of occurrences (although only two are included in the index) and 
I
> recommend conducting the exercise.
> 
>  2. Although it might be a matter of some interest how the ODF 
specification
> is assessed with regard to the interoperability-related criteria that 
apply
> to it as an ISO/IEC JTC1 submission, I don't believe that the OIC TC has
> undertaken any responsibility in that regard.  This seems to be a proper
> concern for the ODF TC, especially as JTC1 policies come to bear on 
future
> submissions pertaining to IS 26300, its maintenance, its revisions, and 
its
> possible replacements.
> 
>  3. I don't think the OIC TC is considering the assessment of the
> specification with regard to its satisfaction of JTC1
> interoperability-related criteria.  I don't believe that inspecting the 
ODF
> specification in this way has ever come up; the charter does not refer 
to
> that particular challenge.
> 
>  4. It seems that the OIC TC assessment of the state of interoperability 
is
> not about the application of the JTC1 criteria, but about practical
> achievement of interoperability.  (I do confess that the ISO/IEC 
Information
> Technology Vocabulary definition is rather opaque and probably too 
abstract.
> It would be useful to add something about what that means to us with 
regard
> to ODF interoperability.)
> 
>  5. Since the assessment and other efforts of the OIC TC may lead to
> recommendations to the ODF TC concerning needed improvements and
> clarifications in the specification itself, there might be an indirect
> contribution to satisfaction of interoperability-related conditions in 
the
> JTC1 procedures.  The connection seems to be an indirect one.
> 
> It would be useful for us to review the interoperability considerations 
in
> the JTC1 procedures to see if there is anything that would strengthen 
the
> focus and value of our assessments and of our feedback to the ODF TC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: robert_weir@us.ibm.com [mailto:robert_weir@us.ibm.com] 
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic-comment/200906/msg00001.html
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 08:08
> To: oic-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [oic-comment] State of ODF Interoperability ? Draft Rev 0.2 
--
> Discussion of interoperability
> 
> marbux <marbux@gmail.com> wrote on 06/09/2009 12:13:33 AM:
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic-comment/200906/msg00000.html
> > 
> > @ The draft currently states:
> > 
> > "According to ISO/IEC 2382-01, 'Information Technology Vocabulary,
> > Fundamental Terms', interoperability is 'The capability to
> > communicate, execute programs, or transfer data among various
> > functional units in a manner that requires the user to have little or
> > no knowledge of the unique characteristics of those units'.
> > 
> > ISO/IEC 2382-001's definition is inapplicable to international IT
> > standards and its usage has led to a serious error in the subject
> > draft.
> > 
> 
> ISO/IEC 2382 is the International Standard for IT Vocabulary.  So to say 

> that its use is inapplicable to international standards is absurd.  Not 
> only is it permissible, the use of this vocabulary standard is 
> specifically recommended in ISO Directives Part 2 "Rules for the 
structure 
> and drafting of International Standards".
> 
> 
> > The definition applicable to international IT standards is provided by
> > ISO/IEC JTC 1 Directives, (5th Ed., v. 3.0, 5 April 2007) pg. 145,
> > <http://www.jtc1sc34.org/repository/0856rev.pdf>:
> > 
> 
> This is a policy document, not a standard for IT vocabulary. The section 

> you quote is in annex to that policy document. You have conveniently 
> omitted that the sentence you quote begins "For the purpose of this 
policy 
> statement, interoperability is understood..." which makes it clear that 
> the definition is scoped to that specific policy statement, and is not 
> being set out as a general definition.
> 
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> 
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