FW: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

["Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>]

FYI [;<).

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] 
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:03
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; discuss@documentfoundation.org
Cc: odf-dev ODF Toolkit Incubator 
Subject: RE: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

My apologies for the heavy-duty cross-posting.  It might be good to pick a single public list and a subject header and converge there.

Q: WHERE IS THE PROPOSAL?

This started as a simple e-mail list question by Jaime R. Garza on the [tdf-discuss] list:
<http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07698.html>.

There is no proposal in the sense of some technical submission to adapt ODF for this purpose.  You are pretty much seeing the extent of the discussion so far.  The proposal is a paragraph and concept being echoed around these lists now.

Q: WHERE TO BECOME INVOLVED IN ODF IN HTML5?

There are probably two ways to be involved. 

First, development of a proof-of-concept and working [reference] implementation is valuable.

Secondly, the development of necessary specifications, perhaps jointly between the OASIS ODF TC and the W3C, might be required.  

Also, one needs to differentiate between making some sort of OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice deliverable that works in HTML5 and a worked extension of HTML5 that somehow ties into the ODF Format.  

It might not even make technical sense to "make ODF part of HTML5," and that has to be resolved also.

Q: WHAT ABOUT OASIS (and what does Rob Weir have to say about this)?

Rob is on vacation this week.  I know he and others involved on the OASIS TCs are interested in this topic.

A related topic (defining HTML5 presentation of ODF documents) was raised at the OASIS ODF Interoperability and Conformance (OIC TC) on their 2011-09-07 teleconference call:
<http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/201109/msg00009.html>.  It came under section 3.2.3 Profiles.  The discussion is of a Web Profile for ODF.  That is not an insignificant effort.

Q: WHAT ARE THE TECHNICAL CHALLENGES?

   ODF has no rendering model and certainly not an interactive-presentation/-editing model.  None.  Obviously, OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice do, but those are not to be found in the ODF specification.

There are an insignificant number of [X]HTML-isms in the ODF specifications.  XLINK is used, for example.

There is no specified mapping to [X]HTML.  If there were, the import/export of [X]HTML in various implementations of ODF-bases software would presumable work better.  That would be the potential subject matter of a Web Profile though.

There is no standardized ODF DOM (and API) nor a mapping of ODF into an HTML[5] DOM.  Somehow, to make macros and applets work inside ODF, something like this is required as well, although having it fit HTML5 as well might be a confusion of abstraction levels.  (The integration of macros and applets that access the interior structure and external presentation of an ODF document is implementation-defined in ODF 1.2.)

Q: WHERE CAN TECHNICAL DEVELOPMENT HAPPEN?

The ODF Toolkit project offers some DOM implementations, but they are not part of ODF itself.  

The ODF Toolkit project is currently being moved to Apache though.  That project is currently quite Java-centric.  It might be interesting to include that effort in this conversation, however.

If a public reference implementation were to be developed, I believe it is desirable to have it be Apache licensed, wherever development were to occur.  The possibility of a new podling at Apache specifically for this effort should not be overlooked.  

That is the only political part that I see to these challenges, apart from developers, including in private projects, wanting to do it themselves. 



-----Original Message-----
From: Jaime R. Garza [mailto:garzaj@gmail.com] 
<http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07708.html>
<http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3cCAJGN0paeBoKS7HTqpc0waW_qRJgcxEZr-rk+63MMBuBsCe-Xxg@mail.gmail.com%3e>

Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 03:29
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

Do you have any contacts, links, infos about the proposal and status? I
would really like to get involved!

I think the first step is to integrate ODF into HTML5 as read only, editing
could come later. But this is more political than technical.

Cheers!

Jaime

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:07, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com> wrote:
<http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07705.html>
<http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3cCAOap24+y0rFCOA78YFHTLMURQ5LO4OJ7aaLyi3HP0rtFm-2EOw@mail.gmail.com%3e>

> There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
> extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
> don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
> progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
> probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
> to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
> this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
> OO/LibO.
> --
> Ian
[ ... ]


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