Re: [openc2] Re: Standing Rule 4: Election and Term of OpenC2 Co-chairs

[Chet Ensign <chet.ensign@oasis-open.org>]

Hey Duncan, I was just noting (as I think were Toby and Stefan) that some TCs reach a stage where they are not actively creating work but just monitoring people's implementations. They might be fine with sitting as is to answer questions and the like but they don't have the same degree of energy. Those could be cases where getting people to turn out for an election could be iffy.Â

I note it only as a potential downside to forcing chair reelections every 2 years.Â

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 1:28 PM duncan sfractal.com <duncan@sfractal.com> wrote:

Iâm not exactly following. In the cases you are describing, isnât the existing chair still agreeing to be the chair? So if there was only one candidate, wouldnât the re-election be reasonably straight forward? And if the problem is no candidates, isnât that a problem whether you were having an election or not?

Â

Another difference I see with OpenC2 (ie how itâs different from the âdormantâ TCâs) is that I donât foresee itâs work ever being done. Yes the language might get âfinalizedâ, and yes we might eventually enumerate and specify all possible transport options, but we have a very long way to go to enumerate and specify all the actuator profiles (ie all possible security technologies) and I Âpredict new security technologies will continue to be invented forever â so our work will never be done.

Â

Duncan Sparrell

sFractal Consulting LLC

iPhone, iTypo, iApologize

I welcome VSRE emails. Learn more atÂhttp://vsre.info/

Â

Â

From: Chet Ensign <chet.ensign@oasis-open.org>
Date: Monday, December 10, 2018 at 9:31 AM
To: Toby Considine <Toby.Considine@unc.edu>
Cc: Stefan Hagen <stefan@dilettant.eu>, "duncan@sfractal.com" <duncan@sfractal.com>, TC OpenC2 <openc2@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: Re: [openc2] Re: Standing Rule 4: Election and Term of OpenC2 Co-chairs

Â

Toby, that's very true and it is something the TC should consider as well. Lining up volunteers for chair right now may be easy but 2 years from now, with the work maturned, it might be more of an uphill battle.Â

Â

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 2:23 PM Considine, Toby <Toby.Considine@unc.edu> wrote:

There are a lot of layers to this.

Â

There are numerous TCs that have "completed their work" and so largely inactive, but that have elected not to disband. Two years later, they choose to issue an errata based on feedback. Or maybe they release 1.1. Maybe they choose to get the band together, and recruit someone new to add a feature.

Â

In one case, when the OASIS standard was submitted to the IEC, there were comments back to the quiescentÂTC three years later that were then submitted back to the TC as suggested enhancements.

Â

Getting the members to vote for a change in officers may be difficult.Â

Â

So, it depends.

---

From: openc2@lists.oasis-open.org <openc2@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Stefan Hagen <stefan@dilettant.eu>
Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2018 12:28:40 PM
To: Chet Ensign; Duncan
Cc: TC OpenC2; Stefan Hagen
Subject: Re: [openc2] Re: Standing Rule 4: Election and Term of OpenC2 Co-chairs

Â

Hi,

one reflection of mine on the "larger movement":

As a standing rule I think many things are good (per TC) but as
wholesale OASIS rule not to elect for life to me seems to cover
not those initiatives that needed an extra push to reach the initial
goal (transitions from intra and inter corporate "groups" into OASIS
sometimes expose a certain loss of momentum) so in this case I imagine
for myself it would ahve been an awkward feeling to provide volontary
service pro bono and at the same time have the stale ideas of management
by objectives hanging around - but anyway you guys will know what you
need to propell OpenC2 best "direction future".

All the best,
Stefan
Am 06.12.18 um 15:04 schrieb Chet Ensign:
> Hi Duncan - actually, the rule isn't that the TC is disbanded. If a TC
> has no chair, it simply has to stop all other work until a new chair is
> elected. If the chair seat remains vacant for more than 120 days, TC
> Admin may close the TC (but not 'must').
>
> On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:54 AM duncan sfractal.com <http://sfractal.com>
> <duncan@sfractal.com <mailto:duncan@sfractal.com>> wrote:
>
>ÂÂÂÂ One more point in support of staggered terms. My understanding of
>ÂÂÂÂ OASIS rules is that the TC disbands if it does not have at least one
>ÂÂÂÂ chair. By staggering the terms we avoid a lot of clauses weâd have
>ÂÂÂÂ to add about the current chair staying in place in the event the
>ÂÂÂÂ term expires without an election having reached a majority for the
>ÂÂÂÂ new chair.____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __ __
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Duncan Sparrell____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ sFractal Consulting LLC____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ iPhone, iTypo, iApologize____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ I welcome VSRE emails. Learn more at http://vsre.info/____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __ __
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __ __
>
>ÂÂÂÂ *From: *TC OpenC2 <openc2@lists.oasis-open.org
>ÂÂÂÂ <mailto:openc2@lists.oasis-open.org>> on behalf of
>ÂÂÂÂ "duncan@sfractal.com <mailto:duncan@sfractal.com>"
>ÂÂÂÂ <duncan@sfractal.com <mailto:duncan@sfractal.com>>
>ÂÂÂÂ *Date: *Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 7:45 PM
>ÂÂÂÂ *To: *TC OpenC2 <openc2@lists.oasis-open.org
>ÂÂÂÂ <mailto:openc2@lists.oasis-open.org>>
>ÂÂÂÂ *Subject: *[openc2] Standing Rule 4: Election and Term of OpenC2
>ÂÂÂÂ Co-chairs __ __
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __ __
>
>ÂÂÂÂ I would like to reiterate several points Joe mentioned and propose
>ÂÂÂÂ some changes.____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ According to standard OASIS practices, elections are for life terms
>ÂÂÂÂ and I wholeheartedly support periodic re-elections. I have even
>ÂÂÂÂ suggested this to OASIS as a whole for all TCâs and my understanding
>ÂÂÂÂ is this is under consideration. Since OASIS uses 2 year terms for
>ÂÂÂÂ OASISÂ Board, I think two year terms is very appropriate. I think
>ÂÂÂÂ the SR wording should be changed to 2 years instead of 24 months. 24
>ÂÂÂÂ months implies a precision that I donât think is intended. OASIS
>ÂÂÂÂ Board uses 2 years and I think that is what we should use.____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ I think staggering terms by 1 year is better than potentially
>ÂÂÂÂ changing both cochairs at same time. It also makes the election
>ÂÂÂÂ easier (just voting for one position). I do think the âcurrentâ
>ÂÂÂÂ terms should run until June so the current chairs can serve their
>ÂÂÂÂ full two years (ie no need to cut it short). So I propose the SR be
>ÂÂÂÂ modified to June. This would also give us time to do nominations one
>ÂÂÂÂ meeting, election next (January seems rushed).____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ I am against term-limits. People should be allowed to continue if
>ÂÂÂÂ they want to and if the group wants them to,____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Election of a cochair requires a majority of voting members voting
>ÂÂÂÂ for one candidate. I think âinstant runoffâ is both more fair and
>ÂÂÂÂ more time-efficient if there are 3 or more candidates for a
>ÂÂÂÂ position. Instead of voting for a single candidate, you rank order
>ÂÂÂÂ your choices. This is considered more fair by many involved with
>ÂÂÂÂ elections. It is more likely to support âthe will of the peopleâ
>ÂÂÂÂ when there are âsplit voteâ scenarios. More importantly from our
>ÂÂÂÂ viewpoint, it may save having to vote again if no winner in round 1.
>ÂÂÂÂ Note it may even help if only two candidates and enough people
>ÂÂÂÂ considered their second choice acceptable enough to include. I
>ÂÂÂÂ recognize instant runoff may be logistically challenging to do by
>ÂÂÂÂ January (but we could potentially do by June or in future
>ÂÂÂÂ elections).____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ I propose the election of the TC cochair occur prior to the cochairs
>ÂÂÂÂ in the agenda. I assume this would be the case (was in the inaugural
>ÂÂÂÂ TC meeting) but worth stating,____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Duncan Sparrell____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ sFractal Consulting LLC____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ iPhone, iTypo, iApologize____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ I welcome VSRE emails. Learn more at http://vsre.info/____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ *From: *TC OpenC2 <openc2@lists.oasis-open.org
>ÂÂÂÂ <mailto:openc2@lists.oasis-open.org>> on behalf of Joseph Brule
>ÂÂÂÂ <jmbrule@radium.ncsc.mil <mailto:jmbrule@radium.ncsc.mil>>
>ÂÂÂÂ *Date: *Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 9:53 AM
>ÂÂÂÂ *To: *TC OpenC2 <openc2@lists.oasis-open.org
>ÂÂÂÂ <mailto:openc2@lists.oasis-open.org>>
>ÂÂÂÂ *Subject: *[openc2] Standing Rule 4: Election and Term of OpenC2
>ÂÂÂÂ Co-chairs ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ OpenC2 Technical Committee, ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Please refer to the November 13 email, subject âAdopt a standing
>ÂÂÂÂ rule to define 'duration of term' for the Technical and Subcommittee
>ÂÂÂÂ co-chairsâ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ I have not heard any objections to the principle of having a defined
>ÂÂÂÂ term and regularly scheduled elections for the co-chairs, in fact
> the feedback I have received so far is supportive. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ At our next meeting (December 19), I will make a motion to create a
> ballot for our forth standing rule. The standing rule will require
>ÂÂÂÂ a full majority to pass (that is greater than 50% of the voting
>ÂÂÂÂ members must vote yes).ÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
> Here is a draft of SR-4. Please do violence with your red pens. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ SR-4:Â Election and term of OpenC2 Co-chairs____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __1.ÂÂÂÂÂÂ __The Technical Committee (TC) and each subcommittee (SC)
>ÂÂÂÂ shall elect two co-chairs ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __a.ÂÂÂÂÂÂ __A co-chairâs term shall be 24 months____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __b.ÂÂÂÂÂÂ __The period of each co-chair for the TC or an SC is
>ÂÂÂÂ offset by 12 months ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __2.ÂÂÂÂÂÂ __The TC shall hold open elections in the month of
>ÂÂÂÂ January ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __c.ÂÂÂÂÂÂ __All TC members (to include the incumbent co-chairs
>ÂÂÂÂ whose terms are up) are eligible for nomination to an office____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __d.ÂÂÂÂÂÂ __In the event of a vacancy (such as a co-chair stepping
>ÂÂÂÂ down prior to the conclusion of their term), a replacement will be
>ÂÂÂÂ elected to complete the term ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
> Here are some initial comments that I have received. Please provide
> your comments and your opinion on the comments received. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Duncan Sparrell suggested that we hold the elections in June (rather
>ÂÂÂÂ than January)Â to coincide with the month that the TC was stood up.
>ÂÂÂÂ I picked January for no particular reason and I do not have a strong
>ÂÂÂÂ opinion.ÂÂ If anyone has a preference, let me know. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Duncan Sparrell suggested that we conduct the election via an
> âInstant Runoffâ mechanism. For those who are unfamiliar with the
>ÂÂÂÂ instant runoff procedures, refer to
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting. I am fine with
>ÂÂÂÂ the notion of using instant runoffs, but that would merit its own SR
>ÂÂÂÂ (I think) because voting applies to more than just co-chair
> elections. We could add a line after point five along the lines of
>ÂÂÂÂ âIn the event that there are three or more candidates for a single
>ÂÂÂÂ position, then the instant runoff procedures as described in SR-X
> shall be usedâ. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Bret Jordan suggested that we remove the offset, i.e. all co-chair
> positions come up for election simultaneously. I think there is
>ÂÂÂÂ value in the offset for continuity of operations.ÂÂ There is also a
>ÂÂÂÂ practical issue;Â We have a total of eight co-chairs, there could be
> a challenge in finding eight volunteers simultaneously. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Bret Jordan suggested that we not allow a person to serve as
> co-chair for two consecutive terms. The guidance I received from
>ÂÂÂÂ Chet Ensign in this matter was âI discussed this with the Board's
>ÂÂÂÂ Process Committee when it first came up. We agree that holding
>ÂÂÂÂ periodic chair elections didn't violate the TC Process so long as
>ÂÂÂÂ everyone could stand including the current chairs. There is nothing
>ÂÂÂÂ in the rules at present would give us grounds for hard term limitsâ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Bret Jordan suggested another standing rule that any one
>ÂÂÂÂ organization is not permitted to have more than one co-chair in the
> TC at a time. My opinion: At the OASIS Technical Committee level,
>ÂÂÂÂÂ membership is based on individuals, not organizations, that is 1
>ÂÂÂÂ member = one vote, not one company=1 vote, therefore I do not see
>ÂÂÂÂ the basis nor agree with the notion of limiting member
>ÂÂÂÂ participation. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Thank you ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ VR____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Joe Brule ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ _____________________________________________
>ÂÂÂÂ *From:* Brule, Joseph M
>ÂÂÂÂ *Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:10 AM
>ÂÂÂÂ *To:* 'openc2@lists.oasis-open.org
>ÂÂÂÂ <mailto:openc2@lists.oasis-open.org>' <openc2@lists.oasis-open.org
>ÂÂÂÂ <mailto:openc2@lists.oasis-open.org>>
>ÂÂÂÂ *Subject:* Adopt a standing rule to define 'duration of term' for
>ÂÂÂÂ the Technical and Subcommittee co-chairs____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ OpenC2 Technical Committee, ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ The co-chairs have been discussing a proposed standing rule for our
>ÂÂÂÂ technical committee to define the duration of a co-chair's term.
>ÂÂÂÂ Currently, the OASIS procedures define at most two co-chairs for a
>ÂÂÂÂ technical committee or subcommittee, however the length of a
>ÂÂÂÂ co-chair's term is undefined. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
> A proposal was made to adopt a standing rule. The rule would:____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ __Define the length of the term as two years, ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ __Offset the terms by 12 months for the two co-chairs so
>ÂÂÂÂ that an election is held for one of them every 12 months.____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ __The TC would hold open elections every 12 months for
>ÂÂÂÂ all TC and SC chairs whose terms are up. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ __All TC members (including incumbents) are eligible for
>ÂÂÂÂ nomination for an office (i.e. the current officer is not term
>ÂÂÂÂ limited) ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ __ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ __In the event of a vacancy (such as a co-chair step
>ÂÂÂÂ down prior to the conclusion of their term), a replacement will be
> elected to complete the term. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ I think scheduled elections will provide a greater opportunity for
>ÂÂÂÂ diverse members to become co-chairs and infuse the effort with new
> perspectives. I think the offset will build in continuity of
> operations. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Among the co-chairs, I have heard no objections to the proposed
>ÂÂÂÂ standing rule (in fact those who have shared their opinion are
>ÂÂÂÂ supportive) and I took the liberty of asking Chet Ensign if it would
> be OK from an OASIS perspective. OASIS does not have an issue if we
> adopt a standing rule along these lines. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ I will take the liberty of drafting a standing rule and will release
>ÂÂÂÂ it for comment in the near future. I do request your opinion in this
> matter. Obviously we will discuss the matter at the TC monthly but
> your insight and opinion in advance would be most appreciated. If
>ÂÂÂÂ you do not feel comfortable stating your opinion openly, I will
>ÂÂÂÂ respect your wish and I will present the perspective anonymously on
> your behalf. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
> Please consider this proposal. ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Very Respectfully, ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>ÂÂÂÂ Joe Brule____
>
>ÂÂÂÂÂ ____
>
>
>
> --
>
> /chet
> ----------------
> Chet Ensign
> Chief Technical Community Steward
> OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
> http://www.oasis-open.org
>
> Primary: +1 973-996-2298
> Mobile: +1 201-341-1393


--
Stefan Hagen
read://shagen.de
talk: eventually

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php

Â

--

/chetÂ
----------------

Chet Ensign

Chief Technical Community Steward
OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
http://www.oasis-open.org

Primary: +1 973-996-2298
Mobile: +1 201-341-1393Â

--

/chetÂ
----------------

Chet Ensign

Chief Technical Community Steward
OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
http://www.oasis-open.org

Primary: +1 973-996-2298
Mobile: +1 201-341-1393Â