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Subject: Your office-comment: Semantics of "loading" (ODF all versions)
Alex Concerning this question and your earlier observation about scripts in ODF Documents (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-comment/200903/msg00001.html), I don't think this is fixable. It seems to me that saying anything about what a script does and when it does it, except for UI event listening, is pretty meaningless in the ODF specifications and it is probably really all just implementation-defined in the current texts. Considering that there is no specified Document Object Model for use among scripts, and no differentiation between manipulation in an instantiated DOM versus the persisted ODF Document representation, timing and restrictions on timing are simply non-actionable as normative statements. I suppose one could presume an XML DOM based on the <office:document> (the single XML document representation of an ODF document) that even packages might correspond to. Unfortunately, the mapping is incomplete (there being features of packages that have no <office:document> counterpart), some implementers regret <office:document> is in the specification at all (even though it is the closest we have to something that has a leverageable DOM), and the mapping cannot be carried out literally because of problems with URIs that refer to (fragments of) package components and prospects of collisions of ID-valued attributes from the separate XML document parts. Absent an ODF document model (as opposed to the XML infoset that applies only at the level of individual parts), it seems to me that the safest thing to do in ODF 1.2 is to declare scripts and similar oddities of the specification to be (1) implementation-determined and (2) confined to extended ODF documents. Since this is clearly a broken extension point in the specification, this would also be a good place to attempt complete removal for future return when we actually have something useful to say here. I am not making book on any of those prospects. That's my top-of-head thinking, for what it's worth. I can imagine this gap being filled by an effort comparable to the OpenFormula work, or carried out by a rump consortium (e.g., like a Sun-Microsoft-IBM submission to W3C) that works up an implementable, demonstrable specification and proposes it for future incorporation. I suppose this might better be a blog point-counterpoint than here. Any further thoughts on this, Alex? - Dennis This message is my personal observation and any similarity to an official position of the ODF TC or of OASIS is purely coincidental. Were there such an official position, there'd be provision of a link to the official minutes or other approved document where the official position is expressed. Dennis E. Hamilton ------------------ NuovoDoc: Design for Document System Interoperability mailto:Dennis.Hamilton@acm.org | gsm:+1-206.779.9430 http://NuovoDoc.com http://ODMA.info/dev/ http://nfoWorks.org -----Original Message----- From: Alex Brown [mailto:alexb@griffinbrown.co.uk] http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-comment/200903/msg00065.html Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 01:38 To: office-comment@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: [office-comment] Semantics of "loading" (ODF all versions) Dear all, 2.13 had: ----b Scripts must not modify a document while the document is loading. However, scripts may recognize events immediately after a document is loaded. ----e What are the semantics of "loading" and "loaded" in ODF? * Does this imply an ODF processor has to transfer an entire ODF document into memory associated with an application process before "loading" is complete, and at that point the document becomes "loaded". * Is an ODF processor/script then free to perform _any_ modification it wants on that loaded resource? * Does this model preclude paged/streamed/shallow-loaded treatment of ODF documents? A loading model must be formally defined for these kinds of normative statements to be meaningful. Again, a formal terms and definitons section for ODF covering such things may help to improve the overall document quality. - Alex. [ ... ]
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