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Subject: Web-signing standards - II

This following might be of interest to you as PKIers as well as
OASIS members.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ketchell John" <john.ketchell@cenorm.be>
To: "Anders Rundgren" <anders.rundgren@TELIA.COM>; <EINVOICING@LISTSERV.CENORM.BE>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:37
Subject: RE: Final report of the e-invoicing Focus Group


Let's do this in Europe, in CEN/ISSS...

Despite the scepticism that is sometimes expressed about our limited
European efforts, I think we are beginning to find understanding that the
much-vaunted global consortia do not get their act together enough.
Either they too are populated by nerds, or by IPR lawyers arguing amongst
themselves.  The end-user and the European voice are often non-existent.
In private at least, many IT vendor companies are sharing this view - the cost
to them of the "system" at a time of recession is too great.

If we can get a reasonable critical mass of market players together,
including obviously some public authorities, all we need is a Business Plan
for the activity, and some funding - we're a lot cheaper than consortia anyway.
We can work as quickly as consortia do (sometimes quicker) and THEN
project the results at global level wherever is necessary.  As one current
example, we just started a much-needed e-business classification project
with the full support of all the main global players in this domain.

Over to you.

Best regards
John Ketchell
Director, CEN/ISSS - Information Society Standardization System


Rue de Stassart, 36
B-1050 Brussels
email (direct) john.ketchell@cenorm.be
email (secretariat) isss@cenorm.be
Tel (direct) + 32 2 550 08 46
Tel (secretariat) + 32 2 550 08 13
Fax + 32 2 550 09 66
Tel (GSM) +32 475 594 828

-----Original Message-----
From: einvoicing List ISSS - CENORM created 22 October 2002 [mailto:EINVOICING@LISTSERV.CENORM.BE] On Behalf Of Anders Rundgren
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: Final report of the e-invoicing Focus Group

When talking about "signed" invoices, I could not resist
copying the results gathered from the IETF-PKIX, IETF-SMIME,
and the OASIS PKI-TC lists regarding the current state of standards
in this area:

  There are apparently no standards and nothing in the works either
  with respect to signing on-line data on the web using Internet browsers.

Since web-signing is today [*] used by many, many, more people
and organizations than there are users of signed e-email, I remain puzzled.

Is the PKI community really just a bunch of "nerds", mostly out of
touch with the needs of the market?

And what good is a legal framework like the EU signature directive,
intended to address "legal interoperability" if there is no interoperability
in the technical solutions?

"The truth is [still] out there" to travesty a famous TV series.

However, my request spurred quite a lot of interest, so I believe that web-
signing really is a thing that finally will be standardized.  The question
is more by who, as the major interest is really coming from the public
sector, not from commercial entities like banks, that rather protect their
investments in proprietary solutions.  I personally plan to pusue such
a task in W3C or in OASIS in case somebody is interested.

*] Like Scandinavian banks having > 0.5M of users.
All current systems rely on entirely proprietary mechanisms.
Most of the vendors even require NDAs for getting the documentation.

Anders Rundgren

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